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David Miller
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Posted: 19 October 2017 at 12:36pm | IP Logged | 1 post reply

Paul, do you know what "distaff" means, and why using it unironically in this context makes you sound like an utter jackass? 
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Paul W. Sondersted, Jr.
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Posted: 19 October 2017 at 2:48pm | IP Logged | 2 post reply

I took it to mean from the female side of things... You said, '...even distaff of me..." And I guess I took that to mean you were automatically siding with women & were denying it. I guess I misinterpreted that & I apologize for that.

That said, I don't recall treating you in an uncivil manner. Shame you had to lower yourself to that level.
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David Miller
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Posted: 19 October 2017 at 2:59pm | IP Logged | 3 post reply

Paul, I used "distaff" ironically. It does not take a woman to believe allegations of sexual assault and harassment. You did not use the word ironically, and you consider "automatically siding with women" a female quality. Your sexism is on a far lower level than my calling you on it, and I am proud to have done so. Your life would be immeasurably improved if more people confronted your blatant sexism and you listened and learned. 
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David Miller
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Posted: 19 October 2017 at 3:00pm | IP Logged | 4 post reply

Siding with women is a masculine quality, as well. Indeed, it's basic humanity.
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Eric Smearman
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Posted: 19 October 2017 at 6:44pm | IP Logged | 5 post reply

I’ve been hearing things about Cosby’s shiftiness for a good long while,
way before his controversial “pull up your pants” diatribe. Living in Las
Vegas, I know and have met several people who’ve been in show
business for decades and many of them, while not having anything
conclusive to say, can attest to the fact that Cosby has had a pretty
sketchy reputation. One friend was a dancer in a production show and
he spotted her and wanted to meet her. She was warned by many to
not allow him to be alone with her and to keep her eyes on her drink!
And this was 1980!
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John Byrne
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Posted: 19 October 2017 at 7:04pm | IP Logged | 6 post reply

Somewhat creepily (in retrospect), 30 ROCK had a scene in one episode where someone tried to lure Tracy back to work by impersonating Cosby. Tracy was outraged, since Cosby had molested his aunt.

This was before the scandal broke.

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David Miller
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Posted: 19 October 2017 at 9:34pm | IP Logged | 7 post reply

30 ROCK also had a prescient and specific Weinstein joke, too. It seems Tina Fey has sown true-life burns like dragons teeth, someday to germinate and caption the next deserved ruination.
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Paul W. Sondersted, Jr.
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Posted: 20 October 2017 at 7:51am | IP Logged | 8 post reply

@JB: Obviously since I've been added to "The List," JB won't see this post, but perhaps someone else would be so kind as to convey this to him in some way?

It seems as though I have inadvertently offended our host & for that I would like to apologize. In all honesty, I wasn't being clear as to who I was reacting to in my response to his question. In retrospect, I realize that I should have tried harder to convey that.

Even though I was attempting to answer JB's question, the subject(s) I were referring to did not include JB. I have learned over the years to realize that JB is usually aware of the subject matter involved when he enters discussions, especially on his own turf.

So, once again, I apologize to JB for my error & I hope one day he will be forgiving enough to release me the clutches of his dreaded "list" of miscreants.
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Eric Ladd
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Posted: 20 October 2017 at 7:51am | IP Logged | 9 post reply

Didn't MC at the Emmys or Oscars make a joke about Weinstein's one year? The industry will be going through quite a bit of change hopefully. It is like a caste system to be certain where power is peddled and exerted by bullies with a great deal of regularity. For every person that finds what Weinstein was doing horrible there are most likely as many or more that viewed it as a "necessary evil" or "paying your dues" to get ahead in the business. As was pointed out earlier by JB, the term casting couch was coined by show biz.
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Michael Roberts
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Posted: 20 October 2017 at 8:01am | IP Logged | 10 post reply

Didn't MC at the Emmys or Oscars make a joke about Weinstein's one year?

——

Bottom of page 2 of this thread. 
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Paul W. Sondersted, Jr.
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Posted: 20 October 2017 at 8:08am | IP Logged | 11 post reply

@David: Obviously you have misconstrued something & I can assure you that when I mentioned that you were siding with women, I did not mean it in any detrimental way. Quite the opposite, in fact.

While I can understand why you jumped to such a conclusion based on some of the words I typed on a message forum, rest assured that I am anything BUT sexist.

@Eric Smearman: And not to imply anyone is lying, but as I stated elsewhen, these "revelations" only came to the light, so to speak, relatively recently. Yes, NOW I read about all of these incidents, but the skeptic (conspiracy theorist) in me sees it as perfect timing.

That said, if it is ever proven legally in a court of law that Bill Cosby committed these heinous crimes, I will be right there with everyone else condemning him for his actions. Until then, though... since there is STILL a chance that he just may not have committed the crimes he's being accused of... and based on actual history in which people have been wrongfully accused of such crimes in the past (even with overwhelming evidence against them), I will wait. In other words... Innocent until PROVEN guilty in a court of law.


Edited by Paul W. Sondersted, Jr. on 20 October 2017 at 8:11am
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Michael Roberts
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Posted: 20 October 2017 at 8:25am | IP Logged | 12 post reply

And not to imply anyone is lying, but as I stated elsewhen, these "revelations" only came to the light, so to speak, relatively recently. Yes, NOW I read about all of these incidents, but the skeptic (conspiracy theorist) in me sees it as perfect timing.

——

Perfect timing? He faced allegations 13 years ago, and it was largely brushed off by the general public for an entire decade. There’s no conspiracy theory there unless you are asserting that the Illuminati invented social media and fostered a societal change in perspective on sexual harassment and rape all in order to get Cosby in 2015. 
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Michael Roberts
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Posted: 20 October 2017 at 8:34am | IP Logged | 13 post reply

That said, I don't recall treating you in an uncivil manner.

——

While you didn’t name names, I don’t blame anyone who replied to you for feeling that you were directing hostility toward them:


 QUOTE:
There are a few moronic reactions being made here by those that are very obviously playing the ostrich card.
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Paul W. Sondersted, Jr.
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Posted: 20 October 2017 at 9:50am | IP Logged | 14 post reply

@Michael Roberts: While I don't believe that there is an organization known as the Illuminati, I have no doubt that there are people in powerful positions that can do pretty much whatever they want & that includes destroy lives at their whim.

That said, while I'm fully aware that Dr. Cosby faced allegations 13 years ago, the bottom line is that nothing has been proven in a court of law. And I'll reiterate something I always have to state after I mention that, it is not an automatic thing that if someone settles out of court that they should be considered guilty. Yes, it's not automatic & yet far too many people jump to that conclusion.

And regarding those who I was directing "hostility" towards, they know who they are & if someone wants to get defensive on behalf of someone else, that's their prerogative... However, as a wise man once said...

"Anybody who wears a red sweater is an idiot." 

"I have never worn a red sweater and I resent being called an idiot!"

Edited by Paul W. Sondersted, Jr. on 20 October 2017 at 9:55am
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Matt Reed
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Posted: 20 October 2017 at 11:02am | IP Logged | 15 post reply

With regard to rape and sexual harassment in a society that has essentially ignored it for centuries and, worse, made it nearly impossible for those who have suffered its horrible and traumatic effects feel comfortable coming forward, I'm going to have to side with the women (and men) who are now emboldened to do just that.  I find it absurd to think it's "convenient" or "coincidental" or some kind of "conspiracy". It's exactly that kind of thinking that has made women afraid to even speak of the abuse they've suffered, let alone report it, for fear they'll be labeled liars, sluts or worse.  
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Paul W. Sondersted, Jr.
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Posted: 20 October 2017 at 11:46am | IP Logged | 16 post reply

While I can completely sympathize with this view (I personally know someone in this position), I cannot turn a blind eye to the fact that there have been far too many false accusations as well.

I just don't like the idea that someone just MAY be innocent & is being falsely accused. Probability based on numbers, as so many are putting forth, still does not PROVE anything,

Another thing that many put forth is to tell you to imagine someone you care about being in this position (I don't have to imagine, as I imply above). This can also be said of the accused.


Edited by Paul W. Sondersted, Jr. on 20 October 2017 at 11:47am
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Eric Ladd
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Posted: 20 October 2017 at 1:24pm | IP Logged | 17 post reply

The pendulum on this issue has been pulled very far to one side for a long time. There is a likelihood that some accusations made in the past were false. I think the number of unreported incidents dwarfs whatever the number of false accusations might be. Now that the pendulum has been released our society and the people in show biz will need to cope with what I hope is sweeping change. I'm less concerned about the people getting falsely accused than I am about the people stepping forward. The justice system will take care of false accusations. That system has utterly failed the victims in the past. If the bloodlust of society and the court of public opinion prevents a few potential rapists from acting on their desire I can live with that.
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Michael Roberts
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Posted: 20 October 2017 at 2:32pm | IP Logged | 18 post reply

And regarding those who I was directing "hostility" towards, they know who they are & if someone wants to get defensive on behalf of someone else, that's their prerogative... However, as a wise man once said...  

"Anybody who wears a red sweater is an idiot."

"I have never worn a red sweater and I resent being called an idiot!"

——

That’s a cop out and a misuse of the red sweater thing.
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Shane Matlock
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Posted: 20 October 2017 at 4:07pm | IP Logged | 19 post reply

It's kind of sad we live in a world where celebrity somehow makes people impervious to their crimes, despite all evidence to the contrary. A world where guys like Chris Brown can beat Rhianna's face to a pulp and still be wildly successful and R. Kelly walks on his child porn charges despite there being video evidence of his crimes! I bet if there was a tape of Cosby drugging and raping one of these women, Paul would insist that she agreed to that before the tape started rolling and we aren't getting all of the story and he knows the real story behind what happened and that woman is just an opportunist besmirching a great man. 
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Matt Reed
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Posted: 21 October 2017 at 1:47am | IP Logged | 20 post reply

 Paul W Sondersted Jr wrote:
I cannot turn a blind eye to the fact that there have been far too many false accusations as well.

I have to ask for proof of the rampant false accusations.  I need to see documentation that verifies "far too many false accusations" brought forth by accusers. And you have to know that the barometer has to be more than a he said/she said story.  In the cases we're discussing in this thread, tens of people have claimed sexual harassment by the same individual in nearly the exact same manner.  It's not quid pro quo to simply bring up one person raising allegations...although one person after another, not collectively, brought up allegations against Weinstein over the last decade. Ditto Cosby.

At the end of the day, Paul, I don't really see that you have a moral leg to stand on.  Trumpet innocent until proved guilty all you want, but the reverse has never been the norm in the US with regard to sexual crimes against women.  The bar they have had to reach to prove assault has been criminally insurmountable.  That you give so much latitude where Cosby is concerned but give none, absolutely nothing despite acknowledging knowing women who have gone through it in your life, is quite frankly disgusting.  And then you reach to say that it's "convenient" that they all came forward at the same time thus making it a "conspiracy" to bring him down?  Wow.  That's victim shaming of the highest order. 
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Paul W. Sondersted, Jr.
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Posted: 22 October 2017 at 5:44pm | IP Logged | 21 post reply

@Shane: You're making one of those moronic statements that I mentioned elsewhen. You're also one of those individuals that I was directing my response to that got me in "hot water" with our host.

So, according to you,  everything that I have posted about indicates that I would be in favor of proven drugging & raping. Also, from everything that I have posted, I made it seem as though I know what happens behind the scenes of such things.

What a dark & dreary imagination you have to jump to such conclusions. It says much more about you than it does about me.
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Paul W. Sondersted, Jr.
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Posted: 22 October 2017 at 6:24pm | IP Logged | 22 post reply

@Matt Reed: Amazing. The fact that I have personal issues with such crimes & that I'm also willing to give benefit of the doubt of such crimes occurring makes me disgusting in your close-minded imagination affects me not at all.

What I find disgusting is that so many are NOT allowing for due process. People are being condemned & treated unfairly based on UNPROVEN allegations.

At the end of the day, Matt, morality is what is being glossed over here. Justice is NOT being served by automatically siding with the accusers.

And I'm not giving Dr. Cosby any sort of "latitude" whatsoever. I just do not automatically jump to conclusions about such things based on the aforementioned UNPROVEN allegations.

Here's a scenario... Let's say it is proven, in a court of law, beyond a shadow of a doubt that Dr. Cosby is guilty of the crimes he is being accused of. I would be one of the many people who would express sorrow & regret towards the victims of this crimes. What would be the knee-jerk reactions to that? The odds are that many would send hate-filled diatribes my way for not originally jumping on the bandwagon in the first place,

Now... reverse that. Let's say that Dr. Cosby is, at the end of the day, found not guilty of the crimes he was accused of. How many of those that automatically sided with the accusers will step forth & express sorrow & regret towards the accused? There will be a LOT of crickets chirping on that day.

Bottom line is that I'm being open to possibilities & I'm giving benefit of the doubt. That's immoral?

And I do not intentionally shame the accusers. I'm fully cognizant of the hurdles that women go through in these situations & to those that are truly victims I feel nothing but regret & sorrow that they have been put through this by these evil animals.

I'm hopeful that with all the attention being given to this stuff now, that it will help end it all & that justice will be served.
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Shane Matlock
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Posted: 22 October 2017 at 6:27pm | IP Logged | 23 post reply

@Shane: You're making one of those moronic statements that I mentioned elsewhen. You're also one of those individuals that I was directing my response to that got me in "hot water" with our host.

So, according to you,  everything that I have posted about indicates that I would be in favor of proven drugging & raping. Also, from everything that I have posted, I made it seem as though I know what happens behind the scenes of such things.

What a dark & dreary imagination you have to jump to such conclusions. It says much more about you than it does about me.

****

So now I'm the reason you got in hot water with JB? You really do love conspiracies, don't you? The bit about you not believing 50 plus women with very similar accounts about Cosby and trusting your gut feeling over their accounts of the horrendous thing that happened to them had nothing to do with it, eh? I was obviously exaggerating about the video tape bit, but I don't think I'm stretching the truth a lot just judging by your own statements in this thread. And it's great you think I'm a moron, but it wasn't you calling our defense of the women "moronic statements" that got you in ignored by JB, but your own statements in regard to the Cosby rape allegations. Your comprehension skills are the ones that are obviously lacking here if that's what you took from what I said. I did not infer that you were pro drugging and raping, just that you would believe Cosby no matter what the evidence indicated, just as you tried to say that Cosby gave the women drugs for recreational purposes even though he never answered the question when asked if he did it without their knowledge.  Even when faced with the statistics about "false accusations" mentioned by David Miller, you still are spouting it like it's a thing that happens more often than not. 
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Paul W. Sondersted, Jr.
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Posted: 22 October 2017 at 6:44pm | IP Logged | 24 post reply

@Michael Roberts: No. No cop out.

If you go back to my original "rant" & then follow up, you will see a few moronic statements being made.

You previously brought up that I didn't "name names." Reading is fundamental.

Perhaps you disagree with my using the term "moronic?" The statements that they made indicate that they have no interest in due process. That they have no interest in REAL justice for all. To me, that's moronic.

As far as "red sweater syndrome?" If anyone did NOT make a moronic statement as I so indicated, then they need not feel that any "hostility" was directed towards them.
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Shane Matlock
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Posted: 22 October 2017 at 6:49pm | IP Logged | 25 post reply

Paul: @JB: I have the same access to information that everyone else is using. It just seems that I decided to actually READ the information & not jump to certain conclusions.

•••

JB: Welcome to my IGNORE list.

****

@Paul: Exactly which part of that exchange leads you to believe that anything other than your own statements caused JB to ignore you? He asked you if you were privy to any information the rest of us weren't and that was the beginning your response and he ignored you. Seems pretty cut and dry to me and I'm not sure how you infer that's mine or anyone else's fault other than your own.



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