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Paul W. Sondersted, Jr.
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Posted: 22 October 2017 at 7:55pm | IP Logged | 1 post reply

@Shane: I answered this succinctly in my humble apology to JB.

Edited by Paul W. Sondersted, Jr. on 22 October 2017 at 7:55pm
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Paul W. Sondersted, Jr.
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Posted: 22 October 2017 at 8:38pm | IP Logged | 2 post reply

To follow up...

@Shane: So you think you're the only one that I was referring to in regards to the aforementioned moronic statement? Interesting. And I didn't CALL you a moron. I said you made a moronic statement. Even the most intelligent among us are capable of making moronic statements. Even me! (swing away!)

And I never said I didn't believe the accusers. Elsewhen I hypothesized that Dr. Cosby could very well be proven to be guilty... Here... I'll quote myself...

"Yes, it could very well turn out to be true, that the accused is proven (in a Court of Law) to be guilty."him
The point that seems to be flying over certain peoples' foreheads is that Dr. Cosby just might be innocent & based solely on that possibility, I will not join in with the mob mentality.

You inferred that I would believe Dr. Cosby no matter what evidence was presented. That was a moronic statement. If evidence were presented in a court of law that lead to Dr. Cosby being pronounced guilty, then guess what? He'll be guilty.

Regarding Dr. Cosby's not answering a question directed at him, it was a very smart move by the lawyer to direct Dr. Cosby not to answer. Not because he would incriminate himself, but that the question was already answered. It's all in the deposition.

Also, I'm not attempting to quantify false accusation occurrences. In this particular case, as I have stated from the very beginning, what truly matters is what is PROVEN in a court of law. You & others want to keep harping on how many accusers are involved, but how many of these accusers testimonies are being used against Dr. Cosby in court? Not enough apparently, otherwise, don't you think it would be an open & shut case?

The simple fact is that even with SO many people smelling smoke, thus far no one has been able to find the fire.
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David Miller
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Posted: 22 October 2017 at 9:19pm | IP Logged | 3 post reply

"Dr." Cosby? Are you fucking kidding?
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Michael Roberts
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Posted: 22 October 2017 at 10:38pm | IP Logged | 4 post reply

The simple fact is that even with SO many people smelling smoke, thus far no one has been able to find the fire.

----

This is a fucking inane statement. What fire are you supposed to find? Cosby allegedly drugged and raped women. His defense is that he was getting women high and having consensual sex with them. What proof are you expecting? Hidden camera videos? Smartphone selfies from the 1970s showing Cosby raping someone? Sexual assault cases often come down to "he said, she said", and it's certainly the case with Cosby. It comes down to the credibility of the witnesses and the accused, and you already have Cosby being forced to admit some sketchy behavior and lots of accusers who have more to lose than gain by coming out.
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Eric Smearman
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Posted: 22 October 2017 at 11:32pm | IP Logged | 5 post reply

“ ‘Dr.’ Cosby?”

Cosby does, in fact, have a doctorate in education, but I’ve never seen
or heard him being referred to as “Dr. Cosby”, ever. In interviews, I’ve
seen and heard COSBY SHOW cast mates like Malcolm-Jamal Warner
(Theo), Tempest Bledsoe (Vanessa) or Keshia Knight-Pulliam (Rudy)
refer to him as “Mr. Cosby” even into adulthood.
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David Miller
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Posted: 23 October 2017 at 12:10am | IP Logged | 6 post reply

I'm aware of Bill's degree, I'm just agog at Paul's unnecessary and bizarre genuflection to it. 
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Bill Collins
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Posted: 23 October 2017 at 12:27am | IP Logged | 7 post reply

Trying to give him an air of respectability he doesn`t
deserve?

Edited by Bill Collins on 23 October 2017 at 2:08am
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Eric Smearman
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Posted: 23 October 2017 at 12:51am | IP Logged | 8 post reply

This thread is the first and only place where I’ve seen or heard anyone
call him that.
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Paul W. Sondersted, Jr.
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Posted: 23 October 2017 at 8:02am | IP Logged | 9 post reply

Regarding Bill Cosby's earned doctorate...

Some unflattering remarks here & there, but this should "educate" a few...


And Bill Collins has it half right, but until Bill Cosby (I'll call him that here so as not to stir up anymore hate-filled posting proclivities... uh oh!) is LEGALLY pronounced guilty of the charges against him in a court of law, he DESERVES to be respected.
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Paul W. Sondersted, Jr.
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Posted: 23 October 2017 at 8:19am | IP Logged | 10 post reply

@Michael Roberts: My point is that even with so many accusers it's very difficult to prove the allegations. And as I imply elsewhen, due to the circumstances & statute of limitations & other unfair, but legal factors, most of the accusers allegations will not be admissible.

There's a chance that Bill Cosby is innocent, so until it can proven otherwise, I'll give him the benefit of the doubt. It's the RIGHT thing to do.
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Eric Ladd
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Posted: 23 October 2017 at 9:04am | IP Logged | 11 post reply

Innocent of rape, but not innocent of giving someone drugs and then having sex with that person and then another and another and another and another and another and another and another and another? So he is only guilty of having an active sexual libido and questionable means with which he satisfies said libido? I feel comfortable calling it questionable because one woman came forward and accused him of doing something she did not consent to and then another came forward and another and another and another and another and another and another....

At some point, being careful to avoid false accusations dips into trying to minimize the crimes that have been committed. This level of surgical hair splitting is why rape victims rarely come forward. There seems to be a requirement for a mountain of evidence along with a stringent examination of the victim's intentions. =/
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Paul W. Sondersted, Jr.
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Posted: 23 October 2017 at 9:58am | IP Logged | 12 post reply

@Eric Ladd: Obviously you are unaware of this particular drugs' history & it's heavy LEGAL usage in Hollywood circles way back when. Google CAN be your friend (or you can read my 5th post on page 4 of this thread).

Regarding rape accusations in general. I agree wholeheartedly that the deck is stacked against victims, but we can't unwind that clock. As I say elsewhen, I hope things change in that regard.


Edited by Paul W. Sondersted, Jr. on 23 October 2017 at 10:01am
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Shane Matlock
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Posted: 23 October 2017 at 10:48am | IP Logged | 13 post reply

Paul, you do realize that even if someone drinks or takes drugs knowingly, that you can't have sex with them if they're that intoxicated and that it's still rape because they can't give consent? Your insane defense of "Dr." Cosby giving the tranquilizer Quaaludes to women in order to have sex with them "with their consent," belies the fact that you can't give consent when you're whacked out of your mind on drugs or alcohol. So even if he doesn't admit to slipping it in their drinks, which he likely did, the fact he had sex with them after giving them drugs still makes it rape as an inebriated person is incapable of consent.  

You admit the deck is stacked against the victims, but you can't unwind that clock and you're going to just keep stacking it, eh?
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Bill Collins
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Posted: 23 October 2017 at 11:25am | IP Logged | 14 post reply

Secretly using drugs to remove someone`s ability to consent to sex is rape.He has admitted to doing this,so he has admitted to rape.
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Michael Roberts
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Posted: 23 October 2017 at 11:27am | IP Logged | 15 post reply

My point is that even with so many accusers it's very difficult to prove the allegations.

----

Yes, that's my point as well. Where we differ is that you seem to imply that this somehow points to his lack of guilt, while I am saying it's just the nature of the crime.
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Shane Matlock
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Posted: 23 October 2017 at 11:32am | IP Logged | 16 post reply

I don't think he's admitted to secretly doing it. At least not the deposition I read, because his lawyers wouldn't let him answer the question. But whether he did it secretly or not, if they were intoxicated on Quaaludes and he had sex with them in that state, that's still rape, secretly given or not. I think Paul's asseveration about Cosby is that the women knowingly took the drugs and had consensual sex with him, which is a false statement because you can't consent to sex while intoxicated on recreational tranquilizers. 
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Shane Matlock
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Posted: 23 October 2017 at 11:37am | IP Logged | 17 post reply

Paul doesn't seem to understand either that for most of these women there's no court of law to prove this in as the statute of limitations has expired in the majority of the cases. And the reason they didn't come forward earlier is people like Paul that refuse to believe them unless they somehow prove their story to him. And the legal process is fine and all, but it's hardly infallible. Paul, do you think OJ was guilty of murder? Or since he walked free he was totally innocent of his charges and people should've apologized for thinking him guilty?

Edited by Shane Matlock on 23 October 2017 at 12:29pm
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Shaun Barry
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Posted: 23 October 2017 at 12:11pm | IP Logged | 18 post reply


Could one woman, or a select few, secretly "conspire" to extort and ruin Bill Cosby?  Sure, that's not outside of the realm of possibility.

But a coordinated effort of 30+ accusers?  Highly unlikely, almost to the point of improbability.



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David Miller
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Posted: 23 October 2017 at 12:30pm | IP Logged | 19 post reply

It's tempting to bring Nazi Germany into this conversation, both to see how committed Paul is to uncritically defending the indefensible, and to discover if he'll use Hitler, Goering, Goebbels, et al's military ranks. 
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Shaun Barry
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Posted: 23 October 2017 at 1:05pm | IP Logged | 20 post reply


Another thing to consider about the Bill Cosby situation:

For the sake of argument, let's assume that this has indeed been going on since the 1960's... how many other women are we not hearing from?  How many more women still do not want the media attention and notoriety?  How many more women have mentally blocked such instances out of their minds, where they refuse to believe anything happened at all, or don't even remember any details?

And how many more women may have died in that time, before this even became news?  (The 1960's are now 50+ years ago... and Cosby's been famous since, what, 1962?)

There's a real probability that the number of total women that Cosby accosted in this manner could very well be double, maybe even triple, than the ones who have come forward.

(And how many more still have yet to come forward, with stories of Harvey Weinstein, Bill O'Reilly, Roger Ailes, the now-notorious James Toback, etc., etc.?  What's easier to believe... that there's some vast conspiracy network at play, with dozens if not hundreds of women willing to flat-out lie against these men?  Or are these men really just a bunch of creepy jerks who used their power and influence to get what they wanted, and expected all to shut up and keep quiet?  Which scenario makes the most logical sense?)






Edited by Shaun Barry on 23 October 2017 at 1:22pm
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David Miller
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Posted: 23 October 2017 at 1:25pm | IP Logged | 21 post reply

Something else to consider: most false convictions for rape which have been overturned based on newly examined or re-examined DNA evidence were the result of false identification, not false accusation. Malfeasance, if any, typically came via police or prosecutorial "overzealousness", while the victims who identified the wrong person in a lineup or from mug shots in good faith are wracked with guilt for destroying somebody's life. 

False rape convictions are a real issue, but one that demands criminal justice reform, not a bias against accusations and accusers.
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Eric Smearman
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Posted: 23 October 2017 at 5:03pm | IP Logged | 22 post reply

I tried explaining Occam’s Razor (the simplest answer tends to be the
correct one) to someone in regards to the Cosby situation. He said that
that suggested that that could just as well support a conspiracy against
him. I told him that if he thought a conspiracy was a simple answer,
then he really didn’t understand what a conspiracy actually entails.

Edited by Eric Smearman on 23 October 2017 at 5:07pm
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David Miller
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Posted: 23 October 2017 at 10:30pm | IP Logged | 23 post reply

Eric, I laughed at loud. Talk about missing the entire point of a conspiracy.  
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David Miller
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Posted: 23 October 2017 at 10:37pm | IP Logged | 24 post reply

"Conspiracy" has become such an devalued word. I've had colleagues conspire to get me fired, for example, but when I put it like that, describing the literal truth of a matter makes me sound like a crazy person thanks to 55 years of Kennedy Assassination yo-yos.

Speaking of which, The Onion should update this article to include Cosby's accusers and the guy who killed Nicole Brown and Ron Goldman:


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Paul W. Sondersted, Jr.
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Posted: 24 October 2017 at 8:21am | IP Logged | 25 post reply

Sigh. Education is key. I already talked about the history of quaaludes in Hollywood circles back then. I will NOT belabor that point anymore. This is why I called some people ostriches & the shoe obviously fits.

-----
Regarding the extreme scenarios/situations, some truly outlandish theories & innuendos & wishful thinking being bandied about here based on conclusion jumping & bottom line wrongheadedness, I'll just say this... Idiocy at it's finest from some of you.
-----
Anyway, I'll try to express myself simply to aid some of you in your obtuseness, at least in regards to myself... I'll be repeating things, so to the more open-minded among you, please forgive me...

I believe that due process is being overlooked/ignored...

I will NOT condemn someone based on UNPROVEN allegations...

I'm not calling anyone liars...

Even though I believe in innocence until being PROVEN guilty in a court of law, I'm not closed to the possibility of someone being guilty. I just don't think someone's life should be ruined based on possibilities/probabilities...
-----
That's about it, really. I think if I missed something, I more than likely covered it in another of my posts that a certain few have decided to misinterpret, misconstrue & pitifully fail at reading between the lines.

If anyone wants to continue to try (& repeatedly fail) to make assumptions & presumptions about my character and/or my morals, etc., by all means continue to make yourselves look more & more foolish. You may not intend it, but you're providing a but of comedy. Thanks for that.


Edited by Paul W. Sondersted, Jr. on 24 October 2017 at 8:23am
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