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Eric Sofer
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 31 January 2014
Location: United States
Posts: 4789
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| Posted: 15 October 2017 at 9:34am | IP Logged | 1
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Thought I'd open a new topic based on one that seems have a considerable interest. How do you feel about the treatment of heroes and their private lives in comics?
It varies considerably. Spider-Man's story was at least half based on what was going on with Peter Parker. Daredevil also was Matt and DD having story lines.
On the other hand, for books like Fantastic Four (and Marvel Two-on-One*) or the Avengers, it seemed that the characters didn't get nearly as much consideration when they weren't fighting Magneto or such. For instance, Medusa and Crystal were members of the FF for a time, but I don't remember much personal information coming through. In the Avengers, characters without their own books - and I'm especially thinking of the Vision - had no other venue to show them at all.
With DC, it varied a lot as well. We saw a fair amount of Bruce Wayne's life and personal business, as well as Flash, Green Lantern, Firestorm, etc.
On the other hand, as has been noted, a lot of Superman stories were mostly about Superman's activities, with not so much time for Clark Kent. I often felt that the triumvirate of Superman - Kal-El - Clark Kent were still describing the same person, but in different aspects. However, it would appear that tat was a rather rare point of view.
And in team books, characters without their own stories just got NO personal lives. I had mentioned the JLA's Green Arrow, Black Canary, Hawkman, Red Tornado, etc. Ditto for the Teen Titans - except for Robin and Kid Flash, who occasionally had a back up story in their mentors' books, we never learned much more about Wonder Girl or Speedy.
So what do you think about private lives and personal events? Were those truly superfluous to the comics, or were they integral and undertreated?
*Yes, I know. It's an inside joke. Sort of inside joke. Go away kid, ya bother me... :)
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 132282
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| Posted: 15 October 2017 at 9:45am | IP Logged | 2
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When, not long after I joined the Industry, the books expanded from the seventeen pages to which they'd shrunk, back to a more reasonable 22 pages, the first thing that occurred to most writers was that this would allow more "down time" for the characters, without eating into the all important action pages.Not that the solution was perfect. I've told before the story of a writer who was asked by the artist she was working with to include more "civilian" stuff. "Like Byrne and Claremont used to do!" So she gave him a plot that included some quite moments. But when the pages came in, those were gone, and in their place was a Danger Room sequence. When she ask why, the answer was "Quiet pages don't sell." (The artist was already making a small fortune in royalties, but I guess it was too small for him.)
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Robbie Parry
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 17 June 2007
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 12186
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| Posted: 15 October 2017 at 9:46am | IP Logged | 3
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I like them, Eric.
I first read the Lee/Ditko Spider-Man stories in the early 90s when Marvel UK published THE EXPLOITS OF SPIDER-MAN (a reprint title which featured a mix of contemporary and classic issues). I love them!
Sure, it was great seeing Spider-Man go after Scorpion or Molten Man, but it was sure as hell a lot of fun to read about Jameson at the Daily Planet or Aunt May's woes. If one may use food analogies, the superhero stuff was the "cake" but the personal lives of the characters was the "cherry".
I enjoyed seeing Matt Murdock's encounters with his law staff.
It occasionally happened in cartoons, too (difficult, given cartoon episodes tend to be around 20 minutes long once you take out ad breaks). The 1982 HULK cartoon often featured some nice little character moments for Bruce, Betty, Gen. Ross, Major Talbot, Rick, Rio, Rita, etc.
I also like them because they can intertwine with the main plot. So a case Matt Murdock works on may be solved if he puts on the DD outfit; and Peter Parker's personal woes may impact on his crime-fighting exploits (and vice versa).
Having read many 40s/50s/60s DC tales, and I'm sure there must have been exceptions, the lack of private lives was frustrating at times. It didn't detract too much from the stories, but I had been raised on a "diet" of Marvel UK reprints which very much focused on private lives. It just felt that the only purpose at times for DC supporting characters was to stand around and wait to say, "There's a plane crashing, let's hope Superman can save it..." Clark Kent and Bruce Wayne just seemed to hang around waiting to be called into action.
I'm glad that DC did go down the road of showing facets of the characters' private lives.
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Michael Penn
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 12 April 2006
Location: United States
Posts: 12438
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| Posted: 15 October 2017 at 9:46am | IP Logged | 4
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QUOTE:
| On the other hand, for books like Fantastic Four (and Marvel Two-on-One*) or the Avengers, it seemed that the characters didn't get nearly as much consideration when they weren't fighting Magneto or such. |
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I'm very surprised you included the Fantastic Four!
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Bob Simko
Byrne Robotics Security
Negative Mod
Joined: 16 April 2004
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| Posted: 15 October 2017 at 10:21am | IP Logged | 5
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I think Spider-Man and Daredevil are good examples where the civilian
life ties into the hero life. As originally presented, Superman’s civilian
life as a reporter was meant to be a ,means for Superman to intervene.
While I have no interest in seeing Barry Allen go out for a pizza, if his
role as a cop ties into a Flash story, it works for me. The idea of Vision
integrating into the world when not off being a hero, or of Steve Rogers
adapting to a world he never grew up in is definitely interesting to me
(as an adult now), I wouldn’t sacrifice many pages of the Red Skull
getting a knuckle sandwich for it.
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Adam Schulman
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 22 July 2017
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| Posted: 15 October 2017 at 11:33am | IP Logged | 6
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Reading Barry Allen as the Flash has made me realize that the main problem with Wally West as the Flash was that he never had much of a life as anything other than the Flash. He barely had any "civilian life."
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Don Zomberg
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 23 November 2005
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| Posted: 15 October 2017 at 11:56am | IP Logged | 7
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Which period are you thinking about, Adam? During the Waid run, the book turned into a schmaltzy soap opera with Wally and Linda fighting, making up, fighting, making up....
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Adam Schulman
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Joined: 22 July 2017
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| Posted: 15 October 2017 at 12:20pm | IP Logged | 8
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Don -- yeah, but did Wally ever have a job outside of being the Flash? Not for very long. Not like Barry being a police scientist/forensic scientist.
Don't get me wrong, I like Wally as the Flash, particularly in Morrison's JLA run. But reading the current Flash series has made it clear to me, if it wasn't clear before, that killing Barry off in CRISIS was an error. Everything boring about Barry was the result of bad writing, and that's all.
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Shane Matlock
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| Posted: 15 October 2017 at 12:27pm | IP Logged | 9
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Didn't Wally somehow get rich at the beginning of his Flash title? Which would likely explain how he didn't bother with a job. Though not sure if I recall him ever having a job before that either.
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
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| Posted: 15 October 2017 at 1:14pm | IP Logged | 10
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Wally West. Yet another example of how DC is bad at math. Introduced as a ten-something. Jumped a few years to meet the demands of TEEN TITANS. Jumped a decade or so to take over as the Flash. After that, the Wonder Girl I created aged about six years. So altogether that's about twenty years for Wally. And all the adult characters. How old is Batman?
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Michael Roberts
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 20 April 2004
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| Posted: 15 October 2017 at 1:25pm | IP Logged | 11
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Don -- yeah, but did Wally ever have a job outside of being the Flash?
-----
Back when Geoff Johns was writing Wally as a stealth Barry, before he brought back Barry proper, he was a mechanic for the police department.
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Adam Schulman
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| Posted: 15 October 2017 at 2:15pm | IP Logged | 12
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Wally didn't stay rich for long. And I remember the police mechanic bit but I don't remember him having much of a supporting cast.
Assuming that math works the same way in the DCU as it does in the real world, most of the original Justice League members first appeared at least 20 years ago, with the original Teen Titans members first appearing a couple of years after that.
They all still look young, but they aren't. Then again, many of them died and came back, and some -- like Superman, Wonder Woman and Martian Manhunter -- just don't noticeably age. Their supporting casts...like I said, they look younger than they are.
As for Batman -- he's taken a dip in the Lazarus Pit, among other things happening to him, to that would explain why he's still at the peak of his abilities. Ironically, this kinda helps with the secret identity bit. "Bruce Wayne can't possibly be Batman, he's too old."
What to do about this? NEVER TALK ABOUT IT.
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