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Michael Roberts
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Posted: 15 October 2017 at 2:32pm | IP Logged | 1 post reply

And I remember the police mechanic bit but I don't remember him having much of a supporting cast.

----

There were two cops, Chyre and Morillo, then the police profiler Hunter Zolomon, who later became Zoom. 
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Adam Schulman
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Posted: 15 October 2017 at 2:39pm | IP Logged | 2 post reply

I guess my memory sucks. Then again I think I had to cut down on buying comics at that time (early '00s?) and missed most of that particular era of the Wally West Flash comic.

Given that Eobard Thawne has returned I suspect we'll never see Hunter Zolomon again. 
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Eric Sofer
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Posted: 15 October 2017 at 3:07pm | IP Logged | 3 post reply

Michael Penn - I LOVE the Fantastic Four. But really, we saw glimpses of their personal lives at best.

Reed and Sue loved each other. But until the most current era, when did they meet? How did her parents feel about them? Or young Johnny? What about Reed's parents?

What we know about Johnny is: he loves cars and engines. He couldn't keep a steady girlfriend. And he enjoyed practical jokes. That's all.

We found out some about Ben... but how long did it take to reveal that he was Jewish? How long did it take for us to find out that he ran with the Yancy Street Gang? That he had an older brother? That Aunt Petunia was a REAL person?

The FF had personal lives in snippets between the action... and while that's what worked in that era for that team, it was mostly tiny lulls between adventures. No complaints... just an observation.

Do you feel differently about it? I'd like to know your thoughts.
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Brian O'Neill
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Posted: 15 October 2017 at 3:08pm | IP Logged | 4 post reply

When Cary Bates was writing Superman, he was a bit of a stickler for including a 'Clark and supporting cast' scene (presumably mandated by Julie Schwartz). Quite often, especially if the story had been continued from the previous issue, we'd see Superman 'lose track of' the villain, and realize that 'it's time Clark showed up at the Galaxy building'. So, we'd get a page or so of Steve Lombard's latest practical joke he cribbed from Reggie Mantle, or Lana calling everybody 'Luv' 75 times, and then something would require Superman's attention again.

Even if the story were more 'Superman-intensive', we'd get a scene of Lois and/or Lana worried because 'nobody's seen Clark in a while'...or they'd be too preoccupied to discuss Clark at all, because while Superman was occupied in space, the Galaxy Communications Gang would be pleading for him to show up and save them from the invasion of the patented 'Cary Bates Weird Looking Aliens'.
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Robbie Parry
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Posted: 15 October 2017 at 4:20pm | IP Logged | 5 post reply

I'll say this, I'd have liked to have seen much more of Donald Blake as a doctor. Not saying there should have been 20 pages of Blake having a meeting with a nurse and then 2 pages of Thor battling Absorbing Man, but I was always intrigued by his surgical duties.
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Brian Hague
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Posted: 15 October 2017 at 4:42pm | IP Logged | 6 post reply

I grew up reading Superman and never considered his cast anything less than intrinsic to the concept. Seeing Clark at the office and then in action was how that feature went. Sometimes they were in a helicopter or off on adventures of their own, but Lois, Jimmy, Perry, and the rest were characters I looked forward to seeing each month. 

I used to shake my head a bit at statements where artists said they either preferred or didn't prefer "team books" with their large casts of characters. "Superman" had just as many characters as "Justice League." They just wore sports coats and stood on the same plane with one another. 

More recently, it seemed as if all that went away for awhile, with every hero just hanging out mainly with other heroes, as if every title were the Legion of Super-Heroes. Costumes, costumes, costumes, everywhere you look. Civilians became cannon fodder and little else, except for those very few allowed "behind the curtain," and those mostly seemed to be in on who everyone was. One Dr. Jace does not a supporting civilian cast make, especially when she turns out to be a alien secret agent robot. I don't think Alfred really counts, either. I keep waiting for him to tug on his bowtie and have his tux spring into "battle-mode!" 

These days civilian lives and supporting casts may be back, but if so, I'm not seeing it. And since premises for the books and characters come and go with the creative teams, it certainly wouldn't pay to get too attached to any particular set-up. 

"The last guy left us at loose ends, so I'm just having Matt work in the community sector for awhile as he finds his footing..."
"Matt is back on top and Murdock and Associates is there with him! Classic Marvel, baby!"
"Murdock and Assoc. have fallen. And good riddance. Haven't we all seen enough of that by now? Matt's on his own. And loving it."
"Murdock and Assoc. is back again. I don't really see Matt without them, do you?"
"Burned by M&A, Matt's joined a new upcoming agency. New cast! New cases! We hope you love them as much as we do!"
"As a prosecutor in the D.A.'s office, Matt is going to have a chance to avenge the bloodbath that took the lives of his last supporting cast..."
"I think everyone's forgotten how good Matt was at cooking burgers in that Miller run... I'd like to see him get back in touch with his culinary side. Matt as a fast food artist really speaks to me..."

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Don Zomberg
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Posted: 15 October 2017 at 5:25pm | IP Logged | 7 post reply

How old is Batman?

You're overthinking it, as the fanboys will happily tell you. Just relax and let go, the way they approach the hobby.
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Eric Jansen
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Posted: 15 October 2017 at 7:56pm | IP Logged | 8 post reply

When I first started reading, Gerry Conway and Ross Andru spent a lot of time giving us Peter Parker's private life in AMAZING SPIDER-MAN (especially effective when the "ghost" of Gwen Stacy kept showing up), and the same thing was happening in the various reprints I was reading by Stan Lee and Steve Ditko or John Romita.  The trials of Peter Parker were at least as important as the battles of Spider-Man, if not more so.

At the same time over at DC, as pointed out above, the SUPERMAN stories by Cary Bates and Curt Swan always gave us plenty of Clark Kent in between the big Superman battles.  Invariably, Steve Lombard would pull a prank on "poor ol' Clark Kent" somewhere near the beginning of a story and then Clark would give Steve his comeuppance by the end of the story.  I loved these moments!  I always felt that Curt Swan drew Clark Kent and friends better than he drew Superman--and that was okay with me!

I also enjoyed Barry Allen's married life with Iris over in THE FLASH--there wasn't much of that in comics at the time!  It helped the book!  Books like GREEN LANTERN and CAPTAIN AMERICA, where the private life of the hero was not really fleshed out, suffered for the lack of supporting characters and a job that was interesting or helped the drama.

That's why I HATE it when other people "take up the mantle" (steal the costume and name) of an established hero--The person UNDER THE MASK is just as important as the masked persona and, in fact, makes us care about that hero.
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Mike Norris
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Posted: 15 October 2017 at 8:45pm | IP Logged | 9 post reply

I always though the private lives of the Richards family was a big part of FF. Reed and Sue and their woes.. Ben and Johnny with their various girlfriends and friends. 

Developing private lives and supporting casts seems to be a lost art. Especially in this age of heroes who are "on the job" 24/7 and only hang out with other heroes. 
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Brian O'Neill
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Posted: 16 October 2017 at 1:51am | IP Logged | 10 post reply

Eric, did you read THE FLASH around the time of Iris's death? About a year before that, Bates came up with some tension between Iris and Barry, which ended a few issues before her murder, when she broke the news that she was pregnant. The whole run from about mid-1978 to mid-1980 pumped a lot of life into the book, with a heavy emphasis on police drama, as well as Flash getting revenge on Zoom(Not to mention the Clive Yorkin story arc, among others).
.Afterwards, when Barry moved into a high-rise apartment, the series took a turn towards predictability, lasting until the 1983 murder trial storyline that would ultimately run til the book ended. But th period when Bates did a little more experimentation with Barry produced some good stories.
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Eric Jansen
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Posted: 16 October 2017 at 2:33am | IP Logged | 11 post reply

Hi Brian.  I said at the beginning of my post (and don't take this as a criticism to you) "When I first started reading..." for a reason.  I started reading ARCHIE and RICHIE RICH (a LOT of consistency there!) when I was 7 in 1973 and really started with Marvel and DC when I was 9 in 1975--what an amazing time!  I got many years of the classic heroes that still LOOKED like the classic heroes!  I thoroughly enjoyed the Marvel and DC big guns until the mid-80's--a good ten years!--all the way up to CRISIS at DC and, at the same time at Marvel, some undefined lethargy.  After that, I drifted away...visiting the comic shops infrequently and paying more attention to a few of the independents.

I loved the Bates/Novick/McLaughlin run on THE FLASH, but I started to lose interest around the time you mention.  I don't know if it was Bates' storyline or if it could be attributed to Don Heck's (then) messy art or Carmine Infantino (at his loosest) returning for the last few years.

I think both companies were trying to mix things up with their major characters, but often using less than stellar talent.  I lost interest in DC sooner than Marvel, and CRISIS reinvigorated that for a time, but then I left again in the post-CRISIS confusion.  

I know I didn't totally, but I feel like I mostly skipped the 90's--and I'm happy I did!  (Friends who have quit reading comics have given me their entire collections--mostly 90's stuff...and I see why they didn't want them!)

I feel like things got better in the 2000's--good talent came on board, but often editorial direction pushed things in bad directions, so it was a mixed bag, but I was buying again.  But I think we're back to where we were when I first quit--untalented people are pushing things in bad directions.  And now I've quit again.




Edited by Eric Jansen on 16 October 2017 at 2:43am
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Michael Penn
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Posted: 16 October 2017 at 4:07am | IP Logged | 12 post reply


 QUOTE:
I LOVE the Fantastic Four. But really, we saw glimpses of their personal lives at best. ... But until the most current era...

Maybe I'm just an old reader, Eric (Sofer), and I think about comicbooks differently? I stopped reading "The Fantastic Four" in the middle of JB's run, and when I left I didn't feel any aching anxiety about missing out on more information about the character's personal lives. I definitely left when I should have because, for example, since you mentioned it, while I think that JB's Aunt Petunia reveal was a clever joke that he presented well, I also thought it was a mistake to undo two decades of Lee-Kirby's deliberately obscure reference that was funny in its own right. Maybe readers younger than I wanted a "reveal" about most things, everything? I don't know, but not me -- I never needed that. Perhaps readers whose experience and hence expectations of comicbooks began after I left in the early 80s is quite different? So perhaps this is a YMMV thing?

I think that we learned a good deal of background into the FF's personal lives just in the Lee-Kirby era -- I'm far from a walking encyclopedia of "The Fantastic Four," but off the top of my pointy little head, consider #32 and Annual #2, etc., nu?

When I read as a kid and re-read now the Lee-Kirby years (I keep on them because they are so perfect!) I did not and do not have the impression that they merely offered, to use your words, "snippets" amid action-action-action. To a great degree I think that the personal lives of the characters was the engine that drove the series. We weren't reading about a team of superheroes but about a family of superheroes, and I think that came through in spades.

Now, maybe readers younger than I wanted every detail revealed? Maybe, also, readers as old as I but who didn't walk away from comicbooks grew tired and bored of, e.g., the same-old, same-old Johnny Storm, no different in 1991 than he was in 1961...?! Yawn! Maybe?

I really don't know. I'm pretty ignorant about anything in comicbooks after the very early 80s. Following this forum has been for me an education about "aging fanboys" and their likes and dislikes. I could be making big assumptions. But it seems to me that, as you put it, "the current era" is quite unlike the classic era that was my experience and created my expectations.



Edited by Michael Penn on 16 October 2017 at 4:09am
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