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Paul Simpson Simpson
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 07 April 2009
Location: United States
Posts: 939
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| Posted: 23 October 2017 at 1:06pm | IP Logged | 1
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It has amazed me just how insane AIDS/HIV policy has been over the years. The right ignored it and the left made it a civil rights issue. Common sense went out the window. A great deal of this nonsense would have been unnecessary if people would have just used a rubber.
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Adam Schulman
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 22 July 2017
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| Posted: 23 October 2017 at 4:11pm | IP Logged | 2
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JB, your analogy doesn't work.
Sure, test the blood. My point is that if you answer the question "have you ever had sex with another man" with "yes," you don't even get the test -- you get told "sorry, can't take your blood."
At least this was the case in the 1990s. I know because that's what I was told. And I know I'm not HIV+. I knew it then too.
So, yes, it's anti-queer to screen people like that. Just test the damn blood and let that be that.
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Robert Cosgrove
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Joined: 16 January 2005
Location: United States
Posts: 1710
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| Posted: 23 October 2017 at 9:05pm | IP Logged | 3
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I agree with David Miller that Randy Shilts' book, AND THE BAND PLAYED ON is an essential, riveting, and extraordinary account of AIDS and how it spread. Shilts, himself gay and ultimately to die of AIDS, as David mentioned, obviously brought an intense personal interest to the subject, but he was too good a reporter to present a story confined to cartoon villains. Yes, there were the usual right wing moralists who did not help the situation, but there were also substantial efforts in the gay community to resist measures that could have helped control the spread of the disease. There's a lot of blame to go around, not that it's useful to spread blame, but one wonders if we've learned anything that will help when the next plague strikes.
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John M. Jackson
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 31 May 2015
Location: United States
Posts: 188
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| Posted: 23 October 2017 at 9:12pm | IP Logged | 4
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Adam Schulman - "JB, your analogy doesn't work.
"Sure, test the blood. My point is that if you answer the question "have you ever had sex with another man" with "yes," you don't even get the test -- you get told "sorry, can't take your blood."
"At least this was the case in the 1990s. I know because that's what I was told. And I know I'm not HIV+. I knew it then too.
"So, yes, it's anti-queer to screen people like that. Just test the damn blood and let that be that."
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Adam, a blood test isn't conclusive.
"After being infected with HIV, your body works hard to attack the virus. With your body fighting, the virus can’t make as many copies of itself. Even though you still have HIV, you’ll begin to look well and feel well again. The usual blood tests will be normal."
https://familydoctor.org/condition/hiv-and-aids/
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Adam Schulman
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Joined: 22 July 2017
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| Posted: 24 October 2017 at 12:02am | IP Logged | 5
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Then I don't know what's to be done re: blood tests. Heterosexuals can become HIV+ either via sex or intravenous drug use.
And yes queer men should've been less resistant to using condoms, I agree. I've seen documentaries on this. Larry Kramer was pretty loud about it as I recall.
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David Miller
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
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| Posted: 24 October 2017 at 12:05am | IP Logged | 6
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"The usual blood tests" referred to by FamilyDoctor are standard lab work-ups you get with an annual physical or when you ask your doctor to generally test you for STDs. An HIV test is an add-on.
All donated blood in the United States is reliably screened (I tell myself...) for infectious diseases, and donors are supposed to be informed if their donation tests positive for something.
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John M. Jackson
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 31 May 2015
Location: United States
Posts: 188
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| Posted: 24 October 2017 at 12:26am | IP Logged | 7
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Even the add-on HIV tests have a window period, though. I definitely wouldn't trust the home tests since it might not show infection for up to 90 days.
Anyway, if you are going to have a lot of risky sex (hetero or homo) with many different partners, it might not be the best idea to be a blood donor.
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https://www.cdc.gov/hiv/basics/testing.html
"No HIV test can detect HIV immediately after infection. If you think you’ve been exposed to HIV in the last 72 hours, talk to your health care provider about post-exposure prophylaxis (PEP), right away."The time between when a person may have been exposed to HIV and when a test can tell for sure whether they have HIV is called the window period. The window period varies from person to person and depends on the type of test used to detect HIV. - A nucleic acid test (NAT) can usually tell you if you are infected with HIV 10 to 33 days after an exposure.
- An antigen/antibody test performed by a laboratory on blood from a vein can usually detect HIV infection 18 to 45 days after an exposure. Antigen/ antibody tests done with blood from a finger prick can take longer to detect HIV (18 to 90 days after an exposure). When the goal is to tell for sure that a person does not have HIV, an antigen/antibody test performed by a laboratory on blood from a vein is preferred.
- Antibody tests can usually take 23 to 90 days to reliably detect HIV infection. Most rapid tests and home tests are antibody tests. In general, antibody tests that use blood from a vein can detect HIV sooner after infection than tests done with blood from a finger prick or with oral fluid."
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Michael Roberts
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 20 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 14812
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| Posted: 24 October 2017 at 2:09am | IP Logged | 8
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Getting back to Adam's original point, the current 90 day window to detect HIV infection does not justify the previous lifetime MSM ban or even the 12-month MSM ban. If you want to screen behavior, it should be based on having unprotected sex with a new partner (heterosexual or homosexual) in the last 6 months or something along those lines.
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Peter Martin
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 17 March 2008
Location: Canada
Posts: 15797
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| Posted: 24 October 2017 at 6:32am | IP Logged | 9
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"After being infected with HIV, your body works hard to attack the virus. With your body fighting, the virus can’t make as many copies of itself. Even though you still have HIV, you’ll begin to look well and feel well again. The usual blood tests will be normal."
But will still be full of HIV antibodies, which the HIV test looks for...
As Michael says, a deferral period for anyone partaking in unprotected sex with a new partner of 6 months would take care of the small window when the antigens are there, but the antibodies are not yet present (the most common test look for a combination of antigens and antibodies).
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Paul Simpson Simpson
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 07 April 2009
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Posts: 939
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| Posted: 24 October 2017 at 11:43am | IP Logged | 10
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From HIV.gov.... Gay and bisexual men, particularly young African American gay and bisexual men, are most affected. That is a fact from the main place to get HIV info. Doesn't that warrant more caution in the blood supply when dealing those two groups ? Frankly with the easy availability of protection and a 99.99999% clean blood supply new AIDS cases should be next to 0, but some people can't be bothered to put on a damn rubber. A sticky question however is what to do about the African American male transmissions ? We need a honest answer why that group of men are not being more careful. However race being the third rail the chances of a honest answer is pretty slim.
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Michael Roberts
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| Posted: 24 October 2017 at 12:28pm | IP Logged | 11
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A sticky question however is what to do about the African American male transmissions ? We need a honest answer why that group of men are not being more careful. However race being the third rail the chances of a honest answer is pretty slim.
——
Poverty, worse access to healthcare, cultural stigma against homosexuality, and the phrase that has people clutching their pearls... institutional racism. Which is implied by the first two. It’s not coincidental that those higher rates you are talking about are worse in the South.
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Peter Martin
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| Posted: 24 October 2017 at 12:50pm | IP Logged | 12
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The CDC says this:
"In all communities, lack of awareness of HIV status contributes to HIV risk. People who do not know they have HIV cannot take advantage of HIV care and treatment and may unknowingly pass HIV to others.
A number of challenges contribute to the higher rates of HIV infection among African Americans. The greater number of people living with HIV (prevalence) in African American communities and the fact that African Americans tend to have sex with partners of the same race/ethnicity mean that African Americans face a greater risk of HIV infection with each new sexual encounter.
Some African American communities continue to experience higher rates of other sexually transmitted diseases (STDs) than other racial/ethnic communities in the United States. Having another STD can significantly increase a person’s chance of getting or transmitting HIV.
The poverty rate is higher among African Americans than other racial/ethnic groups. The socioeconomic issues associated with poverty—including limited access to high-quality health care, housing, and HIV prevention education—directly and indirectly increase the risk for HIV infection and affect the health of people living with and at risk for HIV. These factors may explain why African Americans have worse outcomes on the HIV continuum of care, including lower rates of linkage to care and viral suppression. Stigma, fear, discrimination, and homophobia may also place many African Americans at higher risk for HIV."
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