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Robbie Parry
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Posted: 23 October 2017 at 8:52am | IP Logged | 1 post reply

Shaun Barry had this to say in our disco topic: 

"I wouldn't even call ABBA a disco group, though... they were a pop act of the '70s, who couldn't help but be influenced by some of the disco sounds of the day. Their songs are much more timeless today, than a lot of the big dance hits from way-back-when."

Music is universal, but it can also be tough to nail down. In a good way, that is. That's why discussions are great. I have a friend who claims Led Zeppelin and Deep Purple are metal bands. They aren't, not really. But without rock, and blues prior to it, would metal have come about? No. Black Sabbath are considered the first metal band, but the likes of Led Zeppelin and Deep Purple paved the way for metal. As a huge metal fan, I'm glad that blues and rock paved the way for metal. 

Also, just like with films, you can't always pigeonhole things. KISS, surely the best band in the world (right, Shaun?), are a rock band. But I've seen their CDs for sale in the metal section of music stores. Where do we draw the line? Are the lines blurred? Are they a hybrid? 

What of bands/singers who deviate? The track "Beth" on the KISS album DESTROYER is as far from rock/metal as one can imagine, but it's a ballad found on a rock album by a rock band. 

How does one define Johnny Cash? His style seemed to transcend genres. 

It can be hard, but fun. It's interesting the perceptions that are out there. When I mentioned metal to the aforementioned friend, his first words were, "You mean like Led Zeppelin and Deep Purple?" There is a distinction between rock and metal, but I wouldn't be pedantic enough to try and "educate a civilian". 

At the end of the day, things aren't always clear-cut. I mean, was Johnny Cash a country singer? Rock and roll? Both? Neither? Something else? 

Over to you - all discussions about various genres welcome.


Edited by Robbie Parry on 23 October 2017 at 8:56am
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Brian Rhodes
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Posted: 23 October 2017 at 12:41pm | IP Logged | 2 post reply

I kinda bristle every time I hear KISS described as Heavy Metal band. They're hard rock, to me.

That said, it can be difficult to make distinctions.

If Black Sabbath is considered a metal band, KISS certainly could be. In some of their early stuff, there is an overlap in style in subject matter  (Black Diamond is about a hooker, Strange Ways and Goin' Blind off of HOTTER THAN HELL aren't exactly party songs).

And certainly by the time "Hair Metal" came around, KISS jumped on that bandwagon.

In that era, seemed like anyone could be called a metal band. Like somehow Bon Jovi was the same genre as Metallica. If Bon Jovi is a metal band, so is Huey Lewis and The News. I mean...musically, how different are they? 


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Robbie Parry
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Posted: 23 October 2017 at 12:45pm | IP Logged | 3 post reply

In that era, seemed like anyone could be called a metal band. Like somehow Bon Jovi was the same genre as Metallica. If Bon Jovi is a metal band, so is Huey Lewis and The News. I mean...musically, how different are they?  

***

It's these sorts of grey areas that make the discussion so fascinating, Brian. :) 
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Shaun Barry
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Posted: 23 October 2017 at 1:10pm | IP Logged | 4 post reply


People just like too many easy labels!

The band imagery of KISS, I think, leads too many non-fans to peg them as heavy metal, but I agree, they're really just a hard-rock band... and really, the only album of theirs that comes anywhere close to being labeled as "heavy metal" would be CREATURES OF THE NIGHT.

That's only one album in 40+ years of existence!

(And for the record, I can't bring myself to think of Johnny Cash as simply "country."  He's so much more than that... if I had to pick a one-word description, it's be "Americana.")



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Brian Rhodes
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Posted: 23 October 2017 at 1:17pm | IP Logged | 5 post reply

I tend to think of REVENGE as the "sequel" to CREATURES, stylistically. "Unholy" is as hard and heavy as KISS songs come...

Then there's CARNIVAL OF SOULS...which is more grunge. Which isn't to say grunge can't sound like metal....(Soundgarden springs to mind)





Edited by Brian Rhodes on 23 October 2017 at 1:17pm
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Peter Martin
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Posted: 24 October 2017 at 6:49am | IP Logged | 6 post reply

How does one define Johnny Cash? His style seemed to transcend genres. 
---------------------------
Country.
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Peter Martin
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Posted: 24 October 2017 at 6:51am | IP Logged | 7 post reply

Sorry, for being glib, but sometimes we try and over think things. Someone's genre is their core. Johnny Cash may have exceeded the boundaries of country but if you reduce him to a core, it was country. I think country music may crumble and fall into the sea if you took away the bedrock of Johnny Cash.

Edited by Peter Martin on 24 October 2017 at 6:52am
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John Byrne
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Posted: 24 October 2017 at 6:57am | IP Logged | 8 post reply

Next, let's define "science-fiction".
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Peter Martin
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Posted: 24 October 2017 at 7:32am | IP Logged | 9 post reply

I think it's usually played with a theremin :)

Edited by Peter Martin on 24 October 2017 at 7:32am
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Robbie Parry
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Posted: 24 October 2017 at 7:43am | IP Logged | 10 post reply

Next, let's define "science-fiction".

***

Very true.

I've seen the likes of KNIGHT RIDER defined as sci-fi, but yet is it? Is it now, given we all have features akin to the car in that show? Was it ever sci-fi?

What's He-Man? His opponents have scientific devices, but there's a lot of sorcery in the show.

It's tough at times.
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Brian Rhodes
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Posted: 24 October 2017 at 10:11am | IP Logged | 11 post reply

Was KISS MEETS THE PHANTOM OF THE PARK Sci-Fi or Fantasy? 

Was it a Super Hero Heavy Metal band fighting a Mad Scientist, or a magic pop rock band battling an Oz-type figure? 

Or was it just a bad idea...?


Edited by Brian Rhodes on 24 October 2017 at 10:12am
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Bill Collins
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Posted: 24 October 2017 at 11:42am | IP Logged | 12 post reply

Defining styles is probably not worth it,Black Sabbath
may be metal,but is a song like Changes? No! Judas
Priest may be metal,but is Last Rose of Summer? No! A
blanket `Rock` description probably works best,but then
Kiss do a disco song!
As someone who like most types of music,i just
appreciate the good stuff whatever the category.
On a related note,on a `Prog` group i`m in on Facebook
you should see the `Is (Insert band name here)Prog?`
discussions!
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Robbie Parry
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Posted: 24 October 2017 at 12:00pm | IP Logged | 13 post reply

The tone of the replies here have all been friendly and good to read, but elsewhere on the internet, there's hostility. Years ago, I had to mediate when two people started arguing over whether AC/DC were a metal band. 
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Brian Rhodes
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Posted: 24 October 2017 at 12:46pm | IP Logged | 14 post reply

AC/DC were rap pioneers. "Back in Black" is basically spoken word over a beat.
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John Popa
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Posted: 24 October 2017 at 1:50pm | IP Logged | 15 post reply

AC/DC were rap pioneers.

-----

So was 'The Music Man.'
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Peter Martin
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Posted: 24 October 2017 at 2:03pm | IP Logged | 16 post reply

Years ago, I had to mediate when two people started arguing over whether AC/DC were a metal band
-----------------------------------------------
You should have seen the kerfuffle between Edison and Tesla over AC/DC.
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Bill Collins
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Posted: 24 October 2017 at 2:04pm | IP Logged | 17 post reply

I`d say Queen and Judas Priest were ahead of AC/DC in
the rap pioneer race! We Will Rock You and Take On The
World were both basically spoken word over a beat in 77
and 78 well before AC/DC! ;-)
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Peter Martin
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Posted: 24 October 2017 at 2:07pm | IP Logged | 18 post reply

And then you have The Revolution Will Not Be Televised recorded by Gil Scott-Heron in 1974.
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Bill Collins
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Posted: 24 October 2017 at 2:07pm | IP Logged | 19 post reply

Actually Tesla were not a bad band! ;-)
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Jack Bohn
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Posted: 25 October 2017 at 10:09am | IP Logged | 20 post reply

Then there's covers: Queen wrote "Crazy Little Thing Called Love" as a tribute to Elvis, I'd say a few steps from rockabilly, but Dwight Yoakam took it all the way back to country. It's as if a director could make "Hamlet" as a cozy mystery or a "Turn of the Screw"-style ghost story without changing the script.
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Bill Collins
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Posted: 25 October 2017 at 11:37am | IP Logged | 21 post reply

Bands like Rush dabbled in Reggae and Ska on some songs,but they were still a Prog rock band.
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Brian Rhodes
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Posted: 26 October 2017 at 8:51am | IP Logged | 22 post reply

And there's I LOVE IT LOUD by KISS....another "rap" song...
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Robbie Parry
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Posted: 26 October 2017 at 12:46pm | IP Logged | 23 post reply

And there's I LOVE IT LOUD by KISS....another "rap" song...

***

How dare you, Brian? How very dare you, sir? ;-))
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James Woodcock
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Posted: 01 November 2017 at 4:09am | IP Logged | 24 post reply

As someone who was a Goth for much of the late '80's/90's, I spent most of the time reading interviews with bands that would say 'No, no, we aren't Goth' when clearly just about everyone at their concerts was a Goth.

So what was Goth music? Was it The Cure? Sisters of Mercy? Fields of the Nephilim? Or was it Cocteau Twins? Dead Can Dance? Was it all of those? Who cares?

I know they all shared a certain something, even if they all sounded completely different (and their songs DO sound completely different). Which raises an interesting point in and of itself. I think it is interesting how people who predominantly are drawn to certain 'types' of music seem to be able to hear/recognise the differences in that music while those that are not will be the ones who say 'that all sound the same'. Something I have been guilty of when it comes to music I do not like.

Example - a Country music fan might possibly say all Goth sounds the same. A Goth might possibly say all Country sounds the same. A Disco fan might say metal/rock all sounds the same (and even say some rock bands are heavy metal) while a metal fan may say all disco sounds the same.

I think there is a study that could be done on that (but then I think there are all kinds of studies with hearing and perception that could be done. As a digression - I take a lot of long haul flights. I have noticed that as I get nearer to sleep, sound diminishes so our brain cancels out our hearing. As I wake up, that sound gets louder. So a heavy sleeper who can 'sleep through anything' might well have something to do with how well their brain can cancel sound. Might already have been investigated but I haven't looked it up to check)
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Bill Collins
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Posted: 01 November 2017 at 8:38am | IP Logged | 25 post reply

I think you do get attuned to the types of music you
like,i love rock be it Prog,Classic or Metal and i know
people have said it all sounds the same to them.I am not
really into Rap/RnB and to me it DOES mostly sound the
same.So yes our brains do filter the stuff we like.
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