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John Byrne
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Posted: 06 November 2017 at 11:30am | IP Logged | 1 post reply

We simply love our guns more than our right to not be shot.

•••

Gun owners assume it is they who will be doing the shooting, heroically taking down the bad guys, like John Wayne or Wyatt Earp.

Thing is, these are so often the same people who will loudly avow that their guns are all stored properly, in gun safes with trigger locks -- posing the question of how long they think the bad guys are going to wait for them to go get their guns.

In some small ways, President Rump is right -- this IS a mental disorder, but it is at the National level, not the individual. It is America that is sick in the mind, and children will keep dying until that is corrected. Until only the police and the military are allowed to have guns.

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Robbie Parry
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Posted: 06 November 2017 at 12:56pm | IP Logged | 2 post reply

Thing is, these are so often the same people who will loudly avow that their guns are all stored properly, in gun safes with trigger locks -- posing the question of how long they think the bad guys are going to wait for them to go get their guns.

***

I've come across the mindset so many times.

No-one (outside this forum) wants a serious debate. I tried to debate this on Twitter once. And one person's response was, "But every mayor in the US has an armed bodyguard." Facetious or stupid. I don't know, but who can beat a mindset like that?
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Andrew Bitner
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Posted: 06 November 2017 at 2:05pm | IP Logged | 3 post reply

JB: Gun owners assume it is they who will be doing the shooting, heroically taking down the bad guys, like John Wayne or Wyatt Earp.

Thing is, these are so often the same people who will loudly avow that their guns are all stored properly, in gun safes with trigger locks -- posing the question of how long they think the bad guys are going to wait for them to go get their guns.

***
Me: It's true- all gun owners are "responsible"... until something happens. It's also interesting to note how rarely a gun owner is ever called irresponsible after their toddler/kid kills himself or others.

And as noted, bad guys aren't the sort to put their crimes on hold until the gun owner is ready to respond with his arsenal of unholy hellfire.

***

JB: In some small ways, President Rump is right -- this IS a mental disorder, but it is at the National level, not the individual. It is America that is sick in the mind, and children will keep dying until that is corrected. Until only the police and the military are allowed to have guns.

***

Agree 100%. It doesn't take a majority to inflict hideously bad policy that affects all of us; it just takes enough extremely committed zealots using their money and phones and mailing lists.

Gun owners, as a collective, refuse to accept responsibility for the risk their obsession poses to our nation, and the rest of us have not shown the necessary determination and endurance to fight them successfully.
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Philippe Negrin
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Posted: 06 November 2017 at 2:08pm | IP Logged | 4 post reply

Almost a mass shooting everyday in the US this year. 42 people shot everyday. This is beyond comprehension.
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Eric Sofer
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Posted: 06 November 2017 at 2:51pm | IP Logged | 5 post reply

Brian O'N.: "The people using the guns are just as much of a problem as the guns themselves"

Absolutely correct. A gun is entirely harmless on its own. Until someone picks it up and uses it... it's just a metal construct. Certainly less dangerous than heart disease, cancer, or lung disease. Less than animal attacks or climate related deaths.

The human element has to be inserted to make a gun deadly. 45 did touch upon a glimmer of truth* that mental defectiveness has to be involved.

Still, the problem is person PLUS gun. Yes, dangerous people can still find a way to hurt others. But them guns make it a lot easier.

So - we remove the guns or we remove the mental defectives. I know which one of those two choices would be the right one... even if too many Americans would disagree.

*He had to get one right sooner or later...
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Brian O'Neill
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Posted: 06 November 2017 at 3:27pm | IP Logged | 6 post reply

There were a lot less of these mass shootings when the 'nuthouses' were still in use. Taking the wack job 'customer base' out of society would put a lot of gun dealers out of business. 
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Robbie Parry
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Posted: 07 November 2017 at 8:54am | IP Logged | 7 post reply

I notice that some on Twitter, including a police chief, are describing the problem as a 'public health epidemic'. 

That sounds like self-delusion. They can't bear to utter the phrase "gun problem". That's sad.

Self-delusion is an issue. If I went around picking fights in a bar, best thing for me to do would be to admit I'm a violent asshole who needs to reform, repent and atone; if, however, I described my problem as an 'anger issue', that'd be self-delusion.

I am going to unfollow any individual on social media who uses the phrase 'public health epidemic' to describe guns.

EDIT: Watching Sean Spicer (interviewed by Piers Morgan) on GOOD MORNING, BRITAIN. He talks about the right to bear arms being a right, and how Americans are proud of their rights. Well, as has been stated COUNTLESS times here, that right goes against the right to life. 


Edited by Robbie Parry on 07 November 2017 at 9:01am
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John Byrne
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Posted: 07 November 2017 at 9:55am | IP Logged | 8 post reply

As I've said, the Second Amendment is unConstitutional, since it overrides all the others.
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Bill Collins
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Posted: 07 November 2017 at 10:07am | IP Logged | 9 post reply

Piers Morgan did say Spicer was a moron for denying it
was a gun control issue,I may not agree with him most of
the time,but I admire him for calling out the gun nuts.
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Michael Penn
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Posted: 07 November 2017 at 10:27am | IP Logged | 10 post reply


 QUOTE:
As I've said, the Second Amendment is unConstitutional, since it overrides all the others.

According to Fox News, JB, the First Amendment's freedom of religion guarantee is best buds with gun rights...


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Charles Valderrama
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Posted: 07 November 2017 at 1:25pm | IP Logged | 11 post reply

And House Speaker Paul Ryan says Prayer WORKS...

*sigh*

-C!
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Robbie Parry
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Posted: 07 November 2017 at 2:07pm | IP Logged | 12 post reply

I'd never be facetious about gun deaths, but if prayer works, then what if people like Ryan pray for no more mass shootings?

A church is the last place you'd expect a shooting (from the perspective of a believer). What will it take for them to change things?!
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Matt Reed
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Posted: 07 November 2017 at 2:17pm | IP Logged | 13 post reply

CONSERVATIVE COLUMNIST: GOD WAS ‘ANSWERING PRAYERS’ OF TEXAS CHURCH VICTIMS BY LETTING THEM GET KILLED


I have no words.
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Robbie Parry
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Posted: 07 November 2017 at 2:26pm | IP Logged | 14 post reply

Do you know what I find most disturbing, Matt? I truly believe that the columnist 100% believes that. 

EDIT: Look at this:


Can someone point out the biblical passage pertaining to firearms? 

I presume it was Genesis, I'm guessing Noah would have needed a gun. Or maybe Cain was given one (perhaps the "mark of Cain" was a firearm). Failing that, perhaps Adam and Eve required firearms after leaving Eden (lots of wild animals about!).

Or is the tweeter (who I'd only heard of today) being ignorant?


Edited by Robbie Parry on 07 November 2017 at 3:09pm
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John Byrne
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Posted: 07 November 2017 at 3:15pm | IP Logged | 15 post reply

God answers all prayers. Sometimes the answer is "Fuck you!"
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John Byrne
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Posted: 07 November 2017 at 3:19pm | IP Logged | 16 post reply

LINK

With those tiny hands, he needs metal phalluses to feel like a real man.

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Robbie Parry
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Posted: 07 November 2017 at 3:44pm | IP Logged | 17 post reply

I fear there is no solution because those who want a solution do not have the power. I wish I could be more hopeful.

I can't even imagine a compromise, e.g. certain types of gun not being sold.

I'm depressed by some social media people today (no-one famous). One guy talked about he needed lots of ammunition in order to stay alive. I might accept that argument from a person living in a war-torn African country (which had descended into anarchy), but from a guy living in the US, I found it utterly nihilistic that someone could go through life with such a view.

What a paranoid and nihilistic way to live your life.
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Matt Reed
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Posted: 07 November 2017 at 8:17pm | IP Logged | 18 post reply

This event, trauma, horrid time mixes with so many things: love, life, the pursuit of happiness, the unfettered right to own guns, Christianity, god, etc., etc., that it makes everything just about meaningless.  

A one year-old child was murdered.

A pregnant woman was murdered.

I get so, so, SO very tired of reading the inevitable victims biographies at the Washington Post, but I feel I have to in order to honor those that were murdered due to senseless gun violence. 

If Sandy Hook wasn't enough...

If a club in Orlando wasn't enough...

If a country concert in Las Vegas wasn't enough...

A church doesn't stand a chance.

I'm sorry, but f**k any Second Amendment righter's who think this is anyhow acceptable or OK or "the price we pay".  I'll double down on f**king those who "pray away" the violence.  

It's horrible. 

It's wrong.

There's something evil in our (American's) love of guns.  
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John Byrne
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Posted: 07 November 2017 at 8:26pm | IP Logged | 19 post reply

The religious folk always seem to dance around the ages old question of why God lets these terrible things happen. It comes down to three, and only three, choices. These things happen because.......

...God makes them happen.

...God lets them happen.

...God is unable to prevent them from happening.

Pick one. You'll end up with a God who is not deserving of anybody's worship.

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Charles Valderrama
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Posted: 07 November 2017 at 9:04pm | IP Logged | 20 post reply

WHEN will a well-funded lobbying national organization rise up to counter the NRA and level the playing field?? I just read this interesting article that presents my question clearly -


The article doesn't cover a lot of specifics, but it's worthy "food for thought".

-C!
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Robbie Parry
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Posted: 08 November 2017 at 2:11pm | IP Logged | 21 post reply

I'm not religious, but have been to church for Xmas carol services. Without being religious, I can say the experiences have been nice, e.g. people shaking your hands, asking how you are.

Non-belief aside, churches should surely be pleasant, gun-free places of worship, right?

Not according to the "brain surgeons" at Gun Owners of America:

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Brian Skelley
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Posted: 09 November 2017 at 12:02pm | IP Logged | 22 post reply

 Robbie Parry wrote:
Can someone point out the biblical passage pertaining to firearms?


Not firearms per say, but this site [link] does break down the Biblical scriptures on the use of deadly force in self defense. It does talk about swords a lot, which one could easily make an argument that it applies to firearms are they're just updated weapons... unless someone's going to attempt to tell me that swords are OK because they're cool and somehow don't have the same intent of design. I came across the site looking up something else. I haven't had the chance to break everything in it down to see how it aligns up with the rest of the Bible, but it does speak to what you're asking about.

The strange (yet interesting thing) about this Texas shooting is it really screws with both the anti and the pro gun sides. For the Anti-gun side it was another shooting and people died because someone shot up a place. On the pro-gun side, this guy was stopped by another guy with a AR. It's been said (and I've not seen one person try to say otherwise) that the body count would have been much higher had the neighbor with his gun. This really is a case where the NRA's "Good guy with a gun stops Bad Guys with guns" rings true. Which is odd in itself. Also on the Pro-gun side is the fact that the murder was kicked out of the Air Force for Domestic Violence. That would make any guns he owns illegal. The only reason he was able to buy them was because the Air Force did not bother to inform the FBI this happened. It would have flagged on the background check (yep, there are background checks, just not retained nor as in depth as some people want them, please see National Instant Criminal Background Check System
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Robbie Parry
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Posted: 09 November 2017 at 1:29pm | IP Logged | 23 post reply

Maybe I'm making a leap, Brian, but based on that, there are no doubt people in society who feel that a rocket launcher should be a right. Or grenades. Seriously. Someone could argue that he/she lives in a violent city and that a rocket launcher would protect him/her against a car full of shooters.

Where do we draw the line on weaponry?

And what is self-defence? Me carrying a pistol if walking through a lawless African country, where bandits are known to frequent, could be considered self-defence; but if living in the suburbs of a peaceful US state, do I need all manner of hi-tech weaponry? Where do we draw the line?
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Eric Sofer
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Posted: 09 November 2017 at 2:26pm | IP Logged | 24 post reply

Robbie P: "...if living in the suburbs of a peaceful US state, do I need all manner of hi-tech weaponry?"

You don't if NOBODY has any high tech weaponry (considering handguns high tech weaponry.) But then, that's gun control again, and it's not time to talk about it.

One consideration is that low tech weaponry - knives, swords, even hands and feet - are not easy to use. I mean, any imbecile can pick up a switchblade - and if he tries to use it against someone else with a switchblade who's practiced with it, he'll get sliced to pieces. Same with a sword, or martial arts.

When learning such weaponry, I'm under the impression that a degree of self-control and discipline is also learned.  But any defective can pick up a gun, point it, and pull the trigger; and if it's close to the right direction, they'll do damage. If it's an automatic weapon, it's hard to avoid doing fatal damage.

If everyone using a gun were required to learn how to use it properly, with the afore-mentioned self-control and discipline, we would all be a lot safer. But when they're almost as easy to obtain as a can of soda... well, we see the results every damned day.
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Philippe Negrin
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Posted: 09 November 2017 at 3:25pm | IP Logged | 25 post reply

When will the gun owners be forced to join a well regulated militia instead of being loose in the streets ???? It's simple, the words are here !
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