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Robbie Parry
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 17 June 2007
Location: United Kingdom
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| Posted: 14 November 2017 at 5:47am | IP Logged | 1
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Of course we all have a limited income but you spend a fair amount in buying comics .
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I can't afford to go to a comic con this weekend (been to two this year). But I wouldn't think of myself as entitled, I wouldn't break in via a fire door and walk around for free.
Billionaires aside, who can afford everything? I'd love some JUDGE DREDD newspaper strips right now, but they are £35+ (if anyone wants to buy them for me for Xmas, please do). I can't afford them. I will wait until I can.
It's not just about writers/artist. Publishers also employ ancillary staff. And within the publishing, there are editors and agents. Lots of people to be paid.
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Dave Phelps
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
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| Posted: 14 November 2017 at 6:06am | IP Logged | 2
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Eric Sofer wrote:
| When did SO MANY PEOPLE start realizing that taking something that belongs to someone else, or taking something and not paying for it was acceptable? |
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The nuance here is the lack of a physical artifact. It just doesn't "feel like" stealing if you're not in a store sliding something into your coat when no one's watching. (Not condoning, just attempting to explain.)
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Peter Martin
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 17 March 2008
Location: Canada
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| Posted: 14 November 2017 at 6:32am | IP Logged | 3
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Can i ever have action comics no1?Nope so hit the button!!!------------------------------------------------------- Everyone can afford a reprint, so don't hit the button -- it's stealing.
Physically stealing an Apple Mac from a store is daunting, but buying one on the cheap that you know is stolen would not be as daunting -- and I would like to think most people would still not do this. Because it is wrong.
Pirating comics, music and movies is wrong, no matter how easy. Someone took the effort to put hours and hours and hours of their lives into creating those comics, songs and movies. Money drives the industries that produce these things we enjoy. You bleed out the money by piracy, you genuinely reduce future creation and you are taking money out of the pockets of the creators.
Try and think from the other point of view -- if you had created a piece of entertainment and it was clear it had value and people would pay to read or listen to what you had created, it would be a real kick in the teeth to find people were just taking it for nothing because they felt it was easy to do so.
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Robbie Parry
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 17 June 2007
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 12186
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| Posted: 14 November 2017 at 6:58am | IP Logged | 4
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Try and think from the other point of view -- if you had created a piece of entertainment and it was clear it had value and people would pay to read or listen to what you had created, it would be a real kick in the teeth to find people were just taking it for nothing because they felt it was easy to do so.
***
That's true.
The old, tired argument I read is "But Dan Brown and Stephen King are rich." Putting that aside (which doesn't make it right), I'd like to think the publishers will always be able to pay the mailroom clerk and secretary, too.
I haven't got a creative bone in my body, but I'd hate to write and draw a strip, market it, perhaps even spend money to get it out there - and see it shared everywhere.
EDIT: I'm not a saint. I stole some grapes when I was about 9. An ill-judged moment with some school friends. Shouldn't have done it. Wish I could go back and change that. But downloading comics, films and TV shows - no!
Edited by Robbie Parry on 14 November 2017 at 6:59am
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
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| Posted: 14 November 2017 at 9:12am | IP Logged | 5
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When did SO MANY PEOPLE start realizing that taking something that belongs to someone else, or taking something and not paying for it was acceptable?•• Again, libraries. We are raised to think of libraries as somehow noble, allowing as they do the reading of books by people who could not afford to buy them. Sounds good, in principle, but books borrowed from a libraries are books for which the author receives no payment.
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Robbie Parry
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 17 June 2007
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 12186
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| Posted: 14 November 2017 at 9:27am | IP Logged | 6
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That's a shame. I had always hoped libraries might give at least pennies, or a few quid, to writers when their books are borrowed.
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David Miller
Byrne Robotics Member
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| Posted: 14 November 2017 at 11:26am | IP Logged | 7
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Libraries purchase a copy of every book or other piece of media they lend out, for which authors receives royalties, or at least the publisher receives payment. When a copy wears out (after 20-30 lends), it is replaced by another purchased copy (demand demanding). If libraries disappeared, book sales wouldn't increase by 20 or 30 times as poor people gobbled up the books they previously had for free; they would decrease by 25%. The sales cutting out libraries would generate is insignificant compared to the dollars that would be lost.
Libraries also re-purchase electronic items after a limited number of lends, which I think is an enlightened way to approach that modern technology.
Publishers LOVE libraries. Libraries are reliable customers for bulk purchases, keep interest in physical media alive, and promote authors to a mass audience. Smaller presses would disappear without library sales, and library sales make it possible for some authors to earn a living.
Libraries make publishing possible, now more than ever, as the saying goes.
Contrast to piracy, in which no copy is purchased, and nobody is paid by the torrent sites.
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John Byrne
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| Posted: 14 November 2017 at 12:12pm | IP Logged | 8
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If libraries replace books after 20 or 30 lends -- which seems generous based on most libraries I've seen -- that represents 20 or thirty times a book is read without being purchased. 20 or 30 times the author receives no payment. And, as you note, this is a repeating cycle.
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David Miller
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| Posted: 14 November 2017 at 12:34pm | IP Logged | 9
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Have you ever had a conversation with your publishers about the possibility of cutting off library sales?
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David Miller
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| Posted: 14 November 2017 at 1:10pm | IP Logged | 10
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For easy math's sake, let's say if a book sells 4,000 copies, roughly 1,000 are sold to libraries. If 1% of 30 lifetime borrowings for each copy represented lost real sales, cutting off libraries would ultimately translate to sales around 3,300, a decrease of 17.5%.
It would require 3.5% of people who'd otherwise borrow from a library buying their own copy (and not from a used bookstore, or a remaindered copy) to make up for the lost sales to libraries. If I were still in publishing, I'd still prefer the bulk sales up front. For that matter, if I were still in publishing, library sales would keep me in publishing.
We can debate how many borrowers would have otherwise bought their own copy on Earth 3 where Ultraman has banned libraries, although I think if anything 1% is generous given the rate of sales conversion we see from piracy, which I believe rounds up to zero, and doesn't even pay for that initial copy before distributing royalty free to tens of thousands of consumers.
Incidentally, according to the American Library Association, library users purchase an average of 3.2 books per month on top of their borrowing habits.
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John Byrne
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| Posted: 14 November 2017 at 2:40pm | IP Logged | 11
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How much of your income is based on intellectual property?
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James Woodcock
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 21 September 2007
Location: United Kingdom
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| Posted: 14 November 2017 at 3:01pm | IP Logged | 12
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Well, JB, at least this won’t be a problem in the UK for much longer the way things are going. Many councils are closing the libraries here. Although personally I think the decision is a disaster.
Libraries allow people to try read books that they may not otherwise try, which can then be a potential source of future customers for the author. Although, having said that, I can see how they can be a problem to authors.
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