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Richard Stevens
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Posted: 20 November 2017 at 1:01pm | IP Logged | 1 post reply

That would have been so simple. What a waste.
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John Byrne
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Posted: 20 November 2017 at 1:13pm | IP Logged | 2 post reply

Simple? No. Even setting aside the number of "professionals" who would have revolted against the whole conept simply because l was in charge (which later actually happened with GENESIS), the off-the-hook egos rampant at DC would have had those selfsame "professionals" working as independent entities and ignoring what everyone else was doing (again as happened with GENESIS).

CRISIS in any form was doomed because there was no concensus on what "needed to be fixed".

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Robbie Parry
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Posted: 20 November 2017 at 1:20pm | IP Logged | 3 post reply

I can't help but think comics could learn (maybe) a thing from movie franchises. This comparison may not work, but I'll try.

HALLOWEEN H20, the seventh entry in the franchise, completely ignored the events of earlier films. If I remember rightly, it's a direct sequel to the first two HALLOWEEN movies. Excluding HALLOWEEN III, which was a different story, H20 ignores the 4th, 5th and 6th films.

I believe the upcoming HALLOWEEN reboot, if reboot is the right term, will completely disregard everything but the first HALLOWEEN.

Were some pleased by that? I doubt it. At the time, I thought it was a tad odd to just completely retcon a few films away. But sometimes wiping the slate clean is preferable to tying things up in knots with explanations, retcons, etc. If your table is a mess, and you can't clean it, maybe sometimes you should just rip off that tablecloth and let the cutlery/food be destroyed!

HALLOWEEN is an imperfect comparison, I know. But it just stopped referencing earlier films and wiped the slate clean with H20 (as the upcoming reboot will do). Maybe instead of CRISIS, they should simply have stopped referring to certain things. Perhaps they should simply have stopped talking about multiple earths and let things continue on their own merit.

It seems CRISIS, and numerous sequels, have been "untying the knots" ever since. 
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Andrew Bitner
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Posted: 20 November 2017 at 1:56pm | IP Logged | 4 post reply

As JB notes, the best bet is not to break the universe in the first place.
Every "family" of titles will not necessarily agree on what has to be fixed or what to do with a relaunch. They're just messy and cause lots of problems.
I prefer JB's approach on Fantastic Four. If there's something you don't want to address, don't mention it. Ever. And in time, it'll either be forgotten or relegated to the junk drawer of trivia and irrelevancies that crop up in serialized storytelling.
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John Byrne
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Posted: 20 November 2017 at 3:54pm | IP Logged | 5 post reply

Sadly, another negative manifestation of the internet is that things are NEVER forgotten.
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Robbie Parry
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Posted: 20 November 2017 at 4:17pm | IP Logged | 6 post reply

Sadly, another negative manifestation of the internet is that things are NEVER forgotten.

***

I'm seeing this with Dr. Who fandom at times.

The show started in 1963. Even within the First Doctor's lifetime, there were elements presented to us that contradicted each other. I am sure the contradictions piled up with the Second Doctor, Third Doctor, etc.

But I wouldn't expect a show that ran from 1963 to 1989, and again from 2005 onwards, to dot every i and cross every t as far as continuity is concerned. How could they?
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Brian O'Neill
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Posted: 20 November 2017 at 4:18pm | IP Logged | 7 post reply

At one time, CRISIS and what became the separate, two-issue HISTORY OF THE DC UNIVERSE were supposed to be the same series, with # 10 ending with 'everything blowing up', and the 'history' part taking up the last two issues(which were supposed to be all that DC published at the end of 1985, excepting 'V', or whatever other 'licensd property' comics were going on at that point.
Everything was supposed to get a new 'number 1' in January of '86. That didn't even come close to happening. Everybody had too many subplots going on in their own titles to wrap everything up on the original schedule. That bearded Canadian guy couldn't start 'Superman' that soon, thanks to that tall dude who ran the other company...and that Miller fellow needed more time than that to finish doing all the wonderful things he did to 'Batman' that would eventually be stolen by every other Bat-writer.
The only thing that went according to plan was CRISIS # 10 ending as intended. The confusing 'everybody on one Earth, but people remember the other Earths', and the umpteenth 'Shadow Demons attack' subplot filled out the 12-issue run.
 So, everything got pushed back, and so DC published a lot of forgettable 'filler' in the first half of '86. By summer, any idea of characters having residual memory of 'alternate Earths' was long gone. In 'post-Crisis' continuity, out of the entire series, maybe half of the last issue was still 'official'. There were a few passing references during 1986 to 'red skies last year' and a 'Crisis' that almost destroyed the Earth, but almost no mention of what it was about in the 'revised' universe.


Edited by Brian O'Neill on 20 November 2017 at 4:25pm
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Robbie Parry
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Posted: 20 November 2017 at 5:53pm | IP Logged | 8 post reply

I am so angry, but I don't think what I have to say warrants a separate topic.

Watching the episode "Comic Book Caper" from the series MYSTERY DINERS. They are undercover (it's usually restaurants) in a comic book store to catch a thief. They are filming unrelated stuff now.

Some berk has bought a comic. And his words were this: "I'm not a comic book guy, what shall I do with it?" Yes, he's buying it for investment. The guy selling it has told him to just keep hold of it and let it go up in value.

That comic may be desired by a person who WANTS the imagery/writing inside. It may be desired by a person who likes the character, writer, etc. And we have some berk buying it and telling the owner he's not a comic book guy.

There's a special place in Hell (I hope) for people who buy comics SOLELY for profit. Not a comic book guy, eh? Then why didn't he fuck off and go invest in a bar of gold instead? Not a comic book guy? Great, but you've just taken a comic which a REAL fan might have wanted.

I suppose that elusive issue of THE INCREDIBLE HULK (where he fights the Abomination and Rhino) won't be mine as someone no doubt has an investment copy somewhere!


Edited by Robbie Parry on 20 November 2017 at 5:55pm
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Michael Roberts
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Posted: 20 November 2017 at 6:43pm | IP Logged | 9 post reply

There's a special place in Hell (I hope) for people who buy comics SOLELY for profit. Not a comic book guy, eh? Then why didn't he fuck off and go invest in a bar of gold instead? Not a comic book guy? Great, but you've just taken a comic which a REAL fan might have wanted.

——

If I buy a comic to read, as an investment, to swat flies with, or to use as toilet paper, it’s none of anyone else’s business. I don’t owe anything to anyone else who might have purchased that book. I mean, it’s a dumb investment, but if someone buys something legally, who am I or who are you to tell them the proper use for it. The issue is not a person buying a comic as an investment, it’s the retailers and publishers who cater to these investors at the expense of their readers.
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Karl Wiebe
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Posted: 21 November 2017 at 12:29am | IP Logged | 10 post reply

"Special place in hell" seems like a BIT of an overreaction.  I can image the C Block in hell--the camera pans past Hitler, Dahmer and Jerry the Bronze Age flipper.
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Brian O'Neill
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Posted: 21 November 2017 at 12:35am | IP Logged | 11 post reply

"Sorry, Charlie(Manson), no room for you here...it took you so long to die, we gave your cell away to this guy who charged a kid five bucks for a Dennis the Menace comic at that con in Buffalo in '81."
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Rick Whiting
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Posted: 21 November 2017 at 1:22am | IP Logged | 12 post reply

The MU and DCU could easily be fixed by retconning and ignoring any stories that "broke" the characters regardless of how popular or unpopular those past stories may have been. However, fans and fans turned pro won't allow any of those fixes to stick since most of them can't let most of these past stories go.
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