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Adam Schulman Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 22 July 2017 Posts: 1717
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Posted: 21 January 2018 at 9:17pm | IP Logged | 1
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OK, I looked up the Jim Lee drawing. It finally looks like he's drawing Superman, not some 21 year old in "Superman armor" (God help me).
As far as I can tell the "new" costume is the traditional costume plus -- I don't even know what to call them on the ends of the sleeves. I don't like the addition. But I can live with it, I guess. I've been living with Hal Jordan wearing what looks like an "incomplete" Green Lantern" costume since 2005.
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Brian Floyd Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 07 July 2006 Location: United States Posts: 8321
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Posted: 21 January 2018 at 10:46pm | IP Logged | 2
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Comes out on Superman's 80th birthday....and my 47th.
Other than weird thing going on with the wrists, that costume is straight up Superman.
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Flavio Sapha Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004 Location: Brazil Posts: 12912
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Posted: 22 January 2018 at 11:13am | IP Logged | 3
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NEAL ADAMS is there! 5-page story!
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Sergio Saavedra Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 13 August 2007 Location: Spain Posts: 451
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Posted: 22 January 2018 at 12:31pm | IP Logged | 4
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Actually I like the current look. It's virtually the same, but without trunks. It even keeps the red and yellow of the trunks.I might be alone here, but I like it better without the trunks. I like the trunks for nostalgic reasons, but I think the current costume fits better with the times.
And I also like New 52 Batman costume immediately previous to the bat with the yellow border.
Edited by Sergio Saavedra on 22 January 2018 at 12:43pm
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005 Posts: 132129
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Posted: 22 January 2018 at 1:10pm | IP Logged | 5
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I might be alone here, but I like it better without the trunks. I like the trunks for nostalgic reasons, but I think the current costume fits better with the times.••• Okay, sorry, but that ranks among the sillier comments I have heard. What the heck do trunks have to do with "the times"??
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Adam Schulman Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 22 July 2017 Posts: 1717
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Posted: 22 January 2018 at 3:08pm | IP Logged | 6
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Why does Batman suddenly need all that armored crap on his gloves?
Sigh
I'm guessing "the times" means "a time when nobody ever sees circus strongmen wearing trunks anymore."
Can't say I care about that one.
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Shane Matlock Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 12 August 2012 Location: United States Posts: 1760
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Posted: 22 January 2018 at 4:16pm | IP Logged | 7
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I will always prefer the trunks, but I've gotten used to not having them I guess. Glad that are bringing them back.
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Eric Sofer Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 31 January 2014 Location: United States Posts: 4789
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Posted: 22 January 2018 at 5:57pm | IP Logged | 8
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From my point of view - and it may be from my 1960s* entree into comic books - I've always considered that the easier the costume, the better on the artist (and the cartoonist, when such came around in their turns.)
The outfits I first recall shocking me were Jack of Hearts and Firestorm. My impression was, "Who could want to draw that 107 times every issue?"
And then, writers - or artists - started adding gimmicracks, contraptions paraphernalia, geegaws, and just general clutter. In very few cases could I even comprehend the reason... Iron Man's armor MIGHT need to look "busier" if it's taking him into vacuum for an extended time. Batman MIGHT need to actually wear armor (against, perhaps, Clayface, Amazo, or Dr. Double-X.)
The biggest change that I recall was Dave Cockrum redesigning a lot of the Legion of Super-Heroes' costumes... and that was, it seemed, to try to appeal to the tastes of the teens of the time. I quite enjoyed that... but it was during my formative years, so I was susceptible. (Yeah, because that Cockrum art turned out SO bad...)
But I saw the Justice League from the Pu52, or the "All-New" Avengers with segments and sections and lines and pouches and attachments and YOU PEOPLE CAN'T EVEN KEEP UP WITH DRAWING A MONTHLY BOOK RIGHT NOW! Why make it HARDER?!?!?
But armor for Superman or Batman? Every single plate identified on Iron Man? Every link of Cap's chain mesh? Every damned little thread of Spider-Man's webbing? Who does this to themselves? Or lets an editor do it to them?
*Having said that... the 40s and 50s costumes didn't seem very complicated either. Maybe Alan Scott's GL suit, or Captain Comet, possibly.
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Robbie Parry Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 17 June 2007 Location: United Kingdom Posts: 12186
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Posted: 22 January 2018 at 6:02pm | IP Logged | 9
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You've hit the nail on the head, Eric (I particularly agree about Jack of Hearts).
One could argue the same about the Thing, I suppose, but I know that's not armour. Merely stating that I wouldn't necessarily want to draw that rock structure constantly. Kudos to all those who have.
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Eric Jansen Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 27 October 2013 Location: United States Posts: 2280
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Posted: 22 January 2018 at 10:00pm | IP Logged | 10
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It's the consistent details that are the problem. The Thing is not that hard because you can change the rock formation every time. Sometimes, for an artist, extra detail is a fun challenge. I recently drew a Jack of Hearts standing pin-up and I enjoyed it--but there's no way I could draw it from above, from below, etc. (Still, I'd love to see Art Adams tackle a Jack story!)
Those armor lines that Jim Lee added to everyone in New 52 were ridiculous though! Armor seams on the legs, arms, and torso CONFLICTED with the natural muscles lines! One or the other, please! (Yet, artists were expected to draw both.)
That Superman pic above looks familiar. Isn't that a swipe from JB?
Batman does look like he's wearing longjohns without his trunks. I notice that a lot of artists attempted a way around that by perpetually drawing his crotch in shadow. (If they had done an all-black costume like in the movies, it wouldn't be an issue.)
The one good thing about removing Superman and Batman's trunks (which DC people had probably been thinking about doing for 20 years) was that it proved it SHOULDN'T be done! Henry Cavill and hundreds of cosplayers can probably attest that tights by themselves "down there" are a bit embarrassing! (Heck, even Errol Flynn/Robin Hood covered up with a tunic!)
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Brian Hague Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 14 November 2006 Posts: 8515
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Posted: 22 January 2018 at 10:30pm | IP Logged | 11
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We live in a time when the up-and-comers don't know the past and don't care that they don't; A time when Superman's spit-curl is only vaguely understood as a loose piece of hair falling carelessly across his forehead and anybody (today) will tell you it wouldn't hold a consistent shape like those dumbo artists of yesteryear drew it...
See also: Jughead's "paper crown." I mean, that's what it is, right? No? Y'know what? Don't care.
The "underwear on the outside" gag is more deeply ingrained in the current perception of the super-hero than "spandex" and the idea that George Reeves jumped out a window to his death thinking he could fly. Trying to explain circus trunks to someone these days is nigh-unto impossible. You're talking about something they have no first, second, or third-hand connection to. Circuses? What? You mean like those suggestive French stage performances? No? Look, if there hasn't been a thread on the topic on Reddit in the past two months, it may as well have never happened. Stop wasting my time. They're underwear on the outside of the pants. Simple as that. We're done.
A return to more traditional patterns in today's market often reads as simple defeat, and in this case, an acknowledgement that the target audience for these things isn't the up-and-comers who would prefer a new suit every six months, one the new readers can call their own, but rather a bunch of sour, in-fighting fifty-year-olds rapidly closing in on sixty and taking the industry into the grave with them.
Of course, a year-and-a-half from now when they roll out the even-more-new suit, they will be able to say to the traditionalists, "Hey, tried that. Didn't work. By the way, lil' Chris Kent is now a jaded nineteen-year-old shacking up with older single mom Cassie Sandsmark*. Edgy, right? Enjoy!"
* The kid will be Connor's, probably from the no-longer-extant timeline one (two?) reboots back and she'll be trapping the naive Chris into raising it with her, leading to the "Crisis of Infinite Super-Sons" event. It will blow the roof off sales by appealing directly to all one-hundred-and-forty fans who actually know the characters involved and include special surprises! Hint: Laurie's knocked up, and the lil' glowing sprout gazing up knowingly from the sonogram isn't Dan's! *Snicker!*
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Adam Schulman Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 22 July 2017 Posts: 1717
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Posted: 22 January 2018 at 11:57pm | IP Logged | 12
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If Dave Cockrum designed a costume, it's a good costume. That's just how it is.
I'm convinced that Jack of Hearts was killed off because no one wanted to draw that costume on a regular basis.
I'm still waiting for the Flash (Barry) to go back to a simpler design. Even if he started wearing what Wally was wearing in the late '90s rather than the original Carmine Infantino design, I'd be happy.
And if Wally wears the exact same design albeit with silver instead of yellow, that's OK too.
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