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Bill Collins
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Joined: 26 May 2005
Location: England
Posts: 11245
Posted: 16 February 2018 at 7:50am | IP Logged | 1 post reply

Regarding burglary in the U.K. i have caught a few
burglars in my time, to the point that my old workmates
nicknamed me Batman, in all cases they were unarmed
opportunists burgling empty houses, or those of the
vulnerable, where they don`t need a weapon.If
householders started arming themselves with guns, surely
the burglars would do the same?
You Americans seriously need a major change of attitude
regarding guns.
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John Byrne
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Posted: 16 February 2018 at 8:59am | IP Logged | 2 post reply

"Too soon" is the OTHER go-to move.

Congress is packed with cowards who would rather see American children continue to die than stand up to lobbyists with deep pockets.

(In the movie UNFORGIVEN, Clint Eastwood's character has a line to the effect that when you kill a man, you don't just take away everything he has, you take away everything he's ever going to have. And that is so much more with children.)

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John Byrne
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Joined: 11 May 2005
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Posted: 16 February 2018 at 9:02am | IP Logged | 3 post reply

You Americans seriously need a major change of attitude regarding guns.

••

Attitude is the key. As they say, guns don't kill people, people kill people. Problem is, in this country we have a lot of wormy little shits who feel powerless in their lives, and having guns makes them feel IMPORTANT.

This was brought up on CNN last night. The Florida shooter was a hole in the air until he got his guns. Then he became a MAN!!

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Robbie Parry
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Posted: 16 February 2018 at 9:19am | IP Logged | 4 post reply

I'm no lawyer, but even if we keep the right to bear arms, why must that include machine guns, hi-tech weaponry, etc?

Don't grenades count as "arms" in a certain sense? What about rocket launchers?

No serious person (I hope) would allow the sale of such things. Can't some lawyers, somehow, insist that the 'right to bear arms' applies solely to pistols for civilians and, say, rifles and the like for farmers dealing with vermin?
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Brian Floyd
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Posted: 16 February 2018 at 10:09am | IP Logged | 5 post reply

So, I went on Facebook last night, and found out that at least four of my relatives....two of whom are police, and one very religious....are part of the `lets arm teachers' crowd.

Okay, so if we arm teachers, what's the excuse going to be if an unhinged or disgruntled teacher (or former, as in fired) decides to start killing students?

Wouldn't more armed security and metal detectors at every entrance make more sense?

And even if teachers were armed, I'd be completely against substitutes being allowed to carry guns. Not all substitutes are bad, but I've seen plenty who are either too short tempered, too stupid or just plain incompetent to have a regular teaching job. Heaven help us if the bad ones are packing.
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Bill Collins
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Posted: 16 February 2018 at 10:14am | IP Logged | 6 post reply

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Eric Sofer
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Posted: 16 February 2018 at 10:47am | IP Logged | 7 post reply

To me, the situation is basic. I don't think any of the following are debatable premises.

We have a crisis of epidemic proportions. It involves broken people using guns to kill people.

If there are fewer guns, then that means that broken people don't have access to them.

If there are fewer broken people, then the number of guns won't matter.

So I conclude... fixing broken people and reducing the number of guns should make things better.

Now, by "broken people" I don't include everyone who uses a gun to kill. There are terrorists who are perfectly sane and still kill people. There are children who get hold of guns and then an accident occurs. But I feel that the threat posed by these is insignificant; the vast majority of shootings seems to be by broken people.

Incidentally, even if one discusses that suicides shouldn't count as gun deaths... why the hell not? That's a broken person using a gun to kill. The tremendous majority of those need to be fixed as well.

I also feel that putting police in schools won't help. Even though this is a crisis, I feel that the number of security personnel that would need to be in EVERY school in this country would be tremendously inefficient. It also takes too big a step towards a police state.

And two more undebateable items (I hope.)

ITEM: Arming teachers, security personnel, principals, etc. adds more guns and bullets to the situation. I do not think that will contribute to fewer gun attacks.

ITEM: Guns don't kill people; people kill people. But guns make it a lot easier. If a broken person attacks a school with a switch blade, a sword, a bow and arrow... it's a lesser threat than a gun.

It's just so hard to feel so powerless in such a crisis.
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James Woodcock
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Posted: 16 February 2018 at 10:55am | IP Logged | 8 post reply

That sodding 'guns don't kill people' line.

NOTHING man made kills people except people by that stupid logic.
The atom bomb? Doesn't kill people. It is people that fly the plane and people that drop the bomb.
The atom bomb itself had nothing to do with it.

So why are we so scared of it?
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Robbie Parry
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Posted: 16 February 2018 at 11:47am | IP Logged | 9 post reply

I always used to assume the Kinder Egg story was apocryphal (or made-up news), but it appears to be true:

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Bill Collins
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Posted: 16 February 2018 at 12:17pm | IP Logged | 10 post reply

Banned since the 1930`s? Does that mean that breakfast
cereals in the U.S. didn`t have `free gifts` inside the
packets like we did in the U.K.? Usually a small plastic
toy! We certainly had them in the 60`s and 70`s, not
sure about the 80`s.
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Robbie Parry
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Posted: 16 February 2018 at 12:24pm | IP Logged | 11 post reply

On my social media timeline, there are now reports of gunfire at a college in the state of Washington. I feel sick. I hope, maybe just this once, that a person can be stopped - or there are only injuries (no, injuries are not pleasant, but preferable to fatalities).

I won't contribute any more to the topic, but I'll keep reading it - and hope for a solution.
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Rebecca Jansen
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Joined: 12 February 2018
Location: Canada
Posts: 4407
Posted: 16 February 2018 at 12:49pm | IP Logged | 12 post reply

Okay, so this time is different? This time there will be actions finally taken (or even just putting in safeguards and regulations that were there but allowed to expire or undone under the guise of removing red tape)? Great. I would love to see it. I've been discussing gun control in print and face to face with my neighbours, friends and some family for decades. Believe me, I understand that hyper-emotional reaction is absolutely understandable and justifiable, but experience has shown it just tens to leave two extremes who are the most motivated calling names and throwing blame.

I'll believe it when I see it; so show me, show the world. Stuff the name calling and go out and enlighten and communicate to change minds. There should be only one side to these matters, the side of human beings. Wyatt Earp had people check their guns in when it came to his town, so even the wild west of over a hundred years ago may have had more sense. Ronald Reagan wrote about there being a need to not have military style assault weapons in the home, he is a secular semi-God with some and I would start with him right now with certain people (and it might not hurt to add how he more than tripled your national debt with a blank check to the military which went toward $6000 coffee pots while the poor got ketchup reclassified as a vegetable).

This is the age of communication... that is the hope anyway. It requires responsible behaviour where you feel your opponent is not, it requires something more than off-the-top-of-the-head reaction.


Edited by Rebecca Jansen on 16 February 2018 at 12:50pm
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