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Adam Schulman
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Posted: 19 February 2018 at 8:22pm | IP Logged | 1 post reply

Well, I never believed "Saint E. Nelson Bridwell's Gospel' that said Superman and Batman were "29". They looked like they were about 35, minimum, during the '70s and 'pre-CRISIS '80s'.

***

Except when Gil Kane or José Luis García-López drew Superman. Then he looked 29 or at most 32. Curt Swan's Superman, the definitive Superman for so long, NEVER looked 29. More like 39!

I've seen letter columns from SUPERMAN or ACTION COMICS from the 1960s where the editor declared that Clark was 34, anyway. I don't know when the "29" rule was made official.


Edited by Adam Schulman on 19 February 2018 at 8:24pm
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Brian O'Neill
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Posted: 19 February 2018 at 8:30pm | IP Logged | 2 post reply

I think Bridwell wrote it for 'Amazing World of DC Comics'in the '70s, and it was repeated often in Schwartz-era letter columns, as well as 'The Answer Man' Bob Rozakis' feature.
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Rick Whiting
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Posted: 19 February 2018 at 9:01pm | IP Logged | 3 post reply

If you want Batman to be fifty.

_____________________________________


This is why I think that it was a stupid idea to have Dick Grayson age. Dick aged from 10 years old to being in his early to mid 20's (and continues to age), while Batman remained in his early 30's. Has anyone working at DC ever told TPTB that it was a bad idea to age Dick because of this very reason? Dick Grayson should always be Robin and his Nightwing codename should be his nickname (like how the Dark Knight is Batman's nickname) if they want to still call him "Nightwing".
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Rick Whiting
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Posted: 19 February 2018 at 9:06pm | IP Logged | 4 post reply

Bottom line: if it ain't broke, don't fix it.

____________________________________


Truer words have never been said.
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Eric Sofer
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Posted: 20 February 2018 at 9:09am | IP Logged | 5 post reply

ITEM: I stopped collecting Spider-Man books a little after Deb Whitman was introduced. I found her a mewling, childish, self-pitying, two-dimensional character who couldn't escape the written boundaries of self-worthlessness... and that seemed to be all. Maybe her character was modified after I left (she probably turned out to be a mutant...)

ITEM: Adam S. - putting Bruce Wayne in the Lazarus Pit and using it as an explanation of his youth suggests that the Pit is full of Kool-Aid that too many writers have been drinking. It IS an explanation of his youth and vigor, but it shouldn't be necessary. Worrying about Batman's age is pulling the curtain aside too far.

ITEM: I disagree entirely that Curt Swan's Superman always looked older than 29. The slightly recessed hairline in the Silver Age did make him seem a touch older, but that wasn't in Mr. Swan's Bronze Age Superman. (As I recall, another change is that the spit curl reversed, but I'd have to double check to be sure... and it's not important enough to me right now.)

Also, even at 29, Clark Kent and Superman are always the grown up in the room, so there has to be a degree of maturity in his appearance. Mr. Byrne showed this in Man of Steel... a mature man, obviously not in his younger 20s, but still in the prime of his life.

ITEM: KOOL-AID BATH: If we consider the original Justice League of America, six of them have perfectly good reasons to not appear older.
Aquaman, being Atlantean, would probably age differently than human beings. Same for Martians and (later) Thanagarians.
Flash's changed physiognomy could easily prevent him aging.
Green Lantern's power ring could do the same.
Superman... well, a powered Kryptonian might not appear to age at all. And as I recall, "old Superman" was only ever in imaginary stories (dreams, hoaxes...) or due to external influences.
Wonder Woman... an animated clay statues, empowered by the gods, and immortal, probably wouldn't age anyhow.

So Batman, Green Arrow, and the Atom would probably age regularly... but considering how many space missions and dimensional crises they went through, any explanation could change them to eternally young.

Snapper Carr...? Um, yeah, next question? :)

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Don Zomberg
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Posted: 20 February 2018 at 9:10am | IP Logged | 6 post reply

Nightwing isn't just about Batman's age. It's about DC creating a knockoff of one of their icons. Nightwing's success only demonstrates that too many fans want multiple, watered down versions of existing characters. 

Robin may not have been a great character, but turning him into Batman-lite isn't the solution either. 
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Robbie Parry
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Posted: 20 February 2018 at 9:18am | IP Logged | 7 post reply

 Don Zomberg wrote:
Nightwing isn't just about Batman's age. It's about DC creating a knockoff of one of their icons. Nightwing's success only demonstrates that too many fans want multiple, watered down versions of existing characters.

I pine for Dick Grayson's Robin. I bought the trade for THE NEW TEEN TITANS recently (#1-8 from 1980), and it was a pleasure seeing Robin in that. I was never as enamoured with Nightwing. 
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Adam Schulman
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Posted: 20 February 2018 at 5:27pm | IP Logged | 8 post reply

It IS an explanation of his youth and vigor, but it shouldn't be necessary.

*** 

I don't think that's why the writers have done it. I think it's been to have Batman heal from injuries and such. 

***

Nightwing's success only demonstrates that too many fans want multiple, watered down versions of existing characters. 

***

That would be true if Dick had something like Bruce's personality. He doesn't. They're very different people. 
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Andrew Bitner
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Posted: 21 February 2018 at 12:38pm | IP Logged | 9 post reply

I for one would love to see both Marvel and DC return characters to their basic premise. As JB notes elsewhere, however, you ask six fans and get seven answers.

That said, I think it's possible to define most of our characters and teams by a unifying core ideal:

Superman is the last son of a dead world; his goodness leads him to protect his adopted planet from dangers of all shapes and sizes.

the Fantastic Four is a family of science heroes, explorers, and humanity's first line of defense against what's strange and unknown, both on Earth and beyond it.

Spider-Man is a kid with adult responsibilities, struggling with balancing dual identities, often causing himself anguish while doing the right thing.

the X-Men are both victims and beneficiaries of great power that they use to help protect a world that fears and hates them from their own kind.

Captain America is the best of us, the embodiment of America's ideals (as opposed to its practices), and a champion of the people.

We could go on, but there are probably one- or two-sentence encapsulations that get at the essence of what we love about these characters. And that, to me, is what the publishers should be doing instead of launching endless reboots and creators tweaking books to show off their own cleverness.
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Brian O'Neill
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Posted: 21 February 2018 at 2:13pm | IP Logged | 10 post reply

As it turned out, I missed the issue where Deb Whitman was written out of the Spider-Man saga, in PPTSS # 74. It was apparently very anticlimactic(basically, when confronted with the undeniable truth about Peter, she continue to deny it(although not in the manner that Luthor did about his 'suspicion'  in JB's SUPERMAN # 2) and went back to her husband. She did not appear again for about 20 years, long after my comic-reading days had ended.
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Don Zomberg
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Posted: 21 February 2018 at 3:07pm | IP Logged | 11 post reply

They're very different people

But one is still a clone of the original, with similar origins. And the only reason they're "different" these days is because Batman has been turned into an anti social ***** by writers trying to swim in the waters of Frank Miller.





Edited by Don Zomberg on 21 February 2018 at 3:09pm
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Adam Schulman
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Posted: 21 February 2018 at 4:22pm | IP Logged | 12 post reply

Perhaps ironically it was Grant Morrison who genuinely tried to make Batman, as I think Mark Waid once put it, "less of a dick." 

I tend to think of Keith Giffen and J. M. DeMatteis as more responsible for the "humorless anti-social Batman" than Miller. Read the early issues of JUSTICE LEAGUE INTERNATIONAL. It's almost like a Batman parody. 

In DARK KNIGHT Batman even smiled on occasion because he was so happy to be out beating the crap out of criminals again. 

Batman is at least supposed to be a detective. Has Nightwing ever displayed any serious detective skills? Tim Drake seems to be the real detective out of all the Robins. ("Out of all the Robins" isn't a sentence I enjoy typing.)

By the way, something ironic (maybe):

Jason Todd, first iteration: no one likes him, he's too annoying.

Jason Todd, second iteration: absolutely no on likes him, he's really too annoying.

Didn't need to kill him, though. Why not just write him out of BATMAN and DETECTIVE COMICS? Just have him stop being Robin and send him off somewhere never to return. No 1-800 number stunt needed.


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