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Robbie Parry Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 17 June 2007 Location: United Kingdom Posts: 12186
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Posted: 24 February 2018 at 12:46pm | IP Logged | 1
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I've long made it known here that I have zero interest in another "Year One" or "Year Zero" for characters such as Superman, Batman, etc. It's not just because I consider our host's Superman origins to be definitive, but I think all that can be said about some characters has been said.
Batman is a good example. Whether we're discussing the movie BATMAN BEGINS, the comic story BATMAN: YEAR ONE or THE UNTOLD LEGEND OF THE BATMAN, I am not sure what can be added to the mythos, not without going over old ground. There is only so much that can be told, only so much that can be reinterpreted, etc. I feel that there are only so many ways you can show Bruce Wayne training, Clark growing up in Smallville, etc.
In a nutshell, announcements of "Year One" or "Year Zero" storylines are to me what a cross is to a vampire. I recoil in horror!
But, for the purpose of this topic, and I know it will be subjective, is there a character that you feel could benefit from a "Year One" arc? Is there a character you feel could be served well by having his/her early years and pre-superhero life explored?
It did hit on me - and this is a generalisation - that a lot of DC characters seem to have been destined to become what they are (Superman, Batman) whilst a lot of Marvel characters fell into it. I mean, you can do a "Year One" for Superman, but a "Year One" for Bruce Banner might be hard. What ya gonna do, show him drinking milkshake and dating women on Gamma Base? His heroic life (if it can be called that) pretty much started after that gamma bomb explosion.
So, is there a character you feel warrants a "Year One" arc? This isn't one of my usual topics where I'll demand you pick one or two, throw some names out there if you have them.
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Petter Myhr Ness Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 02 July 2009 Location: Norway Posts: 3823
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Posted: 24 February 2018 at 4:24pm | IP Logged | 2
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Honestly, no. If the origin or beginnings of a character is part of the original story, then fine. If not, leave it alone. A lot of people wanted a Wolverine origin story, and it was horrible. Did nothing for the character. So even if there was such a character that could use some "Year One", it would probably be just as disappointing.
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Robbie Parry Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 17 June 2007 Location: United Kingdom Posts: 12186
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Posted: 24 February 2018 at 5:13pm | IP Logged | 3
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You're probably right, although it'll be interesting to see people's replies (if they choose to contribute). No specific character comes to mind. I don't know much about Hawkeye's early life or career, but I doubt I'd break any speed records to get to a comic shop to buy a "Hawkeye: Year One" trade.
I do feel some writers keep returning to the well with Batman. We've had YEAR ONE, but there was a YEAR ZERO in recent years.
I feel that constant "Year One" stories for a particular character are akin to continually peeling an orange. Eventually, there's nothing left to peel - and you're going over old ground.
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Peter Martin Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 17 March 2008 Location: Canada Posts: 15783
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Posted: 24 February 2018 at 6:37pm | IP Logged | 4
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Wolverine is the last character that you do an origin story for.
Personally, I like the roots being revisited periodically, just to remind us what lies beneath the soil of the trunk, rather than endlessly sprouting new branches.
I've liked Batman for as long as I can remember. Loved the Adam West show as a child. Loved the scant issues I was exposed to from the era of O'Neill/Adams/Irv Novick/Giordano. But it took until Miller did The Dark Knight Returns for me to learn Batman's origin, strange as that may seem. Year One further cemented its importance. I was a Marvel kid, so my impressions may not be representative, but it seemed like before that there wasn't a great deal of revisiting of the origin. Not enough for someone with a cursory exposure to the character to have picked up on it, anyway.
Futhermore, Miller didn't go over old ground with Batman: Year One. He made a whole lot of new stuff up!
I would also say you mischaracterise the Year One concept by saying a Hulk Year One wouldn't be interesting because of Banner drinking milkshakes and dating women on Gammas base -- the story would pick up the day of or perhaps the day before the explosion. The Year One would be the year following the explosion, surely?
Anyhoo, getting more focussed on the direct question proposed, I think an X-Men: Year One might be interesting, if only because it might remind film companies that Scott, Jean, Bobby, Warren and Hank were the starting point.
I would also ask, Robbie: if you recoil in horror from year one stories, such as a vampire from a cross, why the repeated animosity for DC not finishing All Star Batman, which is, by another name, a Robin: Year One?
Edited by Peter Martin on 24 February 2018 at 6:38pm
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Joe Zhang Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004 Location: United States Posts: 12857
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Posted: 24 February 2018 at 6:55pm | IP Logged | 5
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I think Wolverine needs a Year One story ... many, many different Year One, to make his origin mysterious once more. So that he could be from early 20th century Canada, or feudal Japan, or just several years ago in a test tube, etc. Each story would provide a solid explanation for a certain aspect of him, but contradict each other wildly.
Edited by Joe Zhang on 24 February 2018 at 7:07pm
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Robbie Parry Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 17 June 2007 Location: United Kingdom Posts: 12186
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Posted: 24 February 2018 at 7:10pm | IP Logged | 6
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Peter Martin wrote:
I would also ask, Robbie: if you recoil in horror from year one stories, such as a vampire from a cross, why the repeated animosity for DC not finishing All Star Batman, which is, by another name, a Robin: Year One? |
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Well, this "vampire" doesn't recoil from every "cross".
ASB interested me as a fan of Frank Miller's writing. I think I bought the first 3-4 issues - and then in 2006, one issue shipped ALL year. I was displeased, especially after Jim Lee acknowledged that the delays were down to him working on a video game (why did DC put him on both projects?).
I would, as a fan of Miller, been interested to see the finale, but on principle, I dropped the book (sorry, Mr Miller, not your fault, I know) when a 'bi-monthly' series gave me ONE issue in 2006.
It started in 2005. As recently as 2015, there was talk of it finishing or continuing, whatever the correct term is. It's absurd what happened. Most delayed book ever, surely?
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Peter Martin Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 17 March 2008 Location: Canada Posts: 15783
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Posted: 24 February 2018 at 7:20pm | IP Logged | 7
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Well, this "vampire" doesn't recoil from every "cross". ------------------------------------------------------------ - Touché!!!
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Trevor Krysak Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004 Location: Canada Posts: 4154
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Posted: 25 February 2018 at 2:04am | IP Logged | 8
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Hellboy. I want more stories like 'Pancakes'.
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Eric Jansen Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 27 October 2013 Location: United States Posts: 2291
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Posted: 25 February 2018 at 5:36am | IP Logged | 9
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I don't really like Year One stories---because I don't think they really happened.
BATMAN: YEAR ONE was the one that started it all and it was amazing, but I don't think it really counts anymore--if it ever did. Did anybody really ever consider Catwoman to have started as a dominatrix prostitute? Sure, aspects of it may have stuck and made it into the movies, but I think it's pretty much agreed that it's on "Frank Miller World"--along with DARK KNIGHT RETURNS and ALL-STAR BATMAN AND ROBIN. It's an alternate Batman.
Same thing with Geoff Johns' SECRET ORIGIN takes on Green Lantern and Superman. I don't believe that Hal Jordan had to go through a trial period with a white circle on his uniform and I don't believe that Brainiac blew up Krypton.
And while I loved JB's SPIDER-MAN: CHAPTER ONE, I don't believe Electro ever had a blue costume. or that Peter was in a coma. Sorry, these things don't jibe with countless other tales that I know were canon.
So, these are all alternate takes on characters by star creators. Interesting to look at, but not canon (if that word means anything anymore).
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Robbie Parry Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 17 June 2007 Location: United Kingdom Posts: 12186
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Posted: 25 February 2018 at 6:04am | IP Logged | 10
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I should add that, despite my vampire analogy, I am not opposed to every "Year One" premise.
I did read "Year Zero" (Batman) recently, and whilst it was passable, I don't think it was necessary. I feel that Batman's early years have been done to death.
I have no desire to see a "Year One" or "Year Zero" story, but that doesn't mean my opposition is absolute (what, in life, is absolute?). If a more obscure character was given a "Year One" arc, and the premise seemed appealing, I'd consider reading it.
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Warren Scott Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 09 July 2016 Posts: 201
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Posted: 25 February 2018 at 7:39am | IP Logged | 11
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I agree with Eric about too many of those stories attempting to add some new wrinkle, whether it's the creator's idea or the publisher's influence. BUT it might be fun to see Plastic Man learning to use his powers, though a one-shot would probably be enough. And it could be cool to let JB finally show us an inexperienced Superman.
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Jason Scott Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 06 August 2012 Location: Scotland Posts: 1167
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Posted: 25 February 2018 at 8:45am | IP Logged | 12
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Not generally a fan on redoing origins, because as Stan Lee I believe once put it, 'Marvel got em right the first time around!.'
Having said that, it's ironic that you should mention the Hulk. If defining it the way Peter did above, i.e The first year of Banner being the Hulk, I actually do think that is one that maybe could be fleshed out a bit more. In order to maybe give a smoother transition on the re-conceiving of the character that happened in those early days.
For instance the evolving of grey to green, night changes to anger based, the gradual lessening of the Hulks vocabulary. And most importantly in my opinion, the ending of his secret identity.
As someone that grew up watching those old 80es Hulk cartoons where Banner's dual identity was still preserved, in those pre-internet years I often wondered how it was that the truth came out in the books. However when I eventually tracked down the issue, I was immeasurably disappointed. If memory serves it was something like Rick believes Banner is dead, and so he just tells everyone. So we never got say, a tense revelation scene with maybe Banner struggling against the change and then transforming in front of his shocked loved ones or a anything memorable like that.
Seemed like a real missed opportunity. But with everyone else, I'm fine with no one exploring more of the early days. And I totally agree with Chris Claremont that Wolverine's full origin should never have been revealed.
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