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Mike Norris
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Posted: 13 April 2018 at 10:34pm | IP Logged | 1 post reply

 The JSA did use the name "Justice Battalion" during the war. A tougher sounding name. 
Marvel's precursor Timely had the All-Winner's Squad. Not the best name out there. Marvel definitely improved on things.  I think, Roy Thomas chose "The Invaders" because it fit well with "The Avengers" and "The Defenders" pattern, even though it's a somewhat negative term. "Liberators" might have been a better choice. On a similar tangent "The Defenders" fits Thor, Iron Man and friends better than "The Avengers". 

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Robbie Parry
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Posted: 13 April 2018 at 11:14pm | IP Logged | 2 post reply

 Robert Shepherd wrote:
I always liked Alpha Flight but to this day I still don't know what  'flight" is in this context. Is it a noun or a verb? Does it designate a group in some way or an action?

I thought of it in the same way as the Royal Air Force uses it: a flight is a military unit commanded by a squadron leader (a squadron leader is equivalent to an army major or navy lieutenant commander). 
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Eric Jansen
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Posted: 14 April 2018 at 1:11am | IP Logged | 3 post reply

Don't forget the adjectives!  Marvel's names are usually short and sweet, but then they often have adjectives that give them a little majesty or intrigue.  (Though they have screwed it up in recent years; I am talking about "Ideal Marvel.")  It's not just "The Avengers," it's "The Mighty Avengers"!  And while "The X-Men" is great, I did prefer (after the Inhumans were done with it) "The Uncanny X-Men"!  And weren't they the "Dynamic Defenders" at some point?  And "The Fantastic Four" have it built in.

I'm probably equally a DC guy and a Marvel guy, so I always appreciated the differences between the two.  "The Challengers of the Unknown," "Legion of Super-Heroes," "The New Teen Titans," and (use all the words please) "The Justice League of America"!

For Marvel, it's almost as if the names were an afterthought (the Ultimate version of the Avengers could be "The Ultimates" and still work).  At DC, sometimes the name was the main thing!  "Challengers of the Unknown" and "The Doom Patrol" are cool, awesome names that give a little thrill--I think the names are why these two concepts are never allowed to fade away!
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Eric Jansen
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Posted: 14 April 2018 at 1:23am | IP Logged | 4 post reply

Hmm...though I said I remembered the Defenders being described as "Dynamic," that was never on the cover.  I notice that the teams that never had a good adjective attached to their name got cancelled!  THE INVADERS, THE CHAMPIONS, THE DEFENDERS (eventually), THE INHUMANS ("Uncanny" didn't quite get official), and even the original X-MEN all got cancelled (before their time, I would say)--but THE UNCANNY X-MEN couldn't be stopped!

(Same thing with Marvel's solo heroes--AMAZING, INVINCIBLE, INCREDIBLE, and MIGHTY [again] for Spider-Man, Iron Man, the Hulk, and Thor, respectively, while Dr. Strange and Daredevil both got descriptions AFTER their names.  But DC didn't do that with their solo heroes, but they DID give them plenty of non-cover nicknames like "The Mighty Mite," "The Scarlet Speedster," etc.--BUT that's a discussion for another thread!)
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James Johnson
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Posted: 14 April 2018 at 4:15am | IP Logged | 5 post reply

 Even though the name was not the title, I've always thought that the First Line, from Marvel:The Lost Generation, was a great name for a team.

Used it in many fantasy leagues.
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Matthew Wilkie
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Posted: 14 April 2018 at 3:02pm | IP Logged | 6 post reply

Always thought X-Factor was a terrible name. It didn't sound like a team in any way.  
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Robbie Parry
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Posted: 14 April 2018 at 3:42pm | IP Logged | 7 post reply

To me, X-Factor sounded like a gameshow.
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Peter Martin
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Posted: 14 April 2018 at 7:53pm | IP Logged | 8 post reply

And to me Blockbusters sounds like a superhero team.
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Steven Myers
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Posted: 14 April 2018 at 9:08pm | IP Logged | 9 post reply

I like the Marvel names much better. DC's groups always sound like a bunch of super friends.

Rim shot?

Anyway, I liked the Avengers name long before I even knew what it meant. It just sounds cool!  DC's team names seem passive.
However, DC has THE best team-up book name--The Brave and the Bold! I've been trying to come up with a team-up book name that cool for decades!
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Peter Martin
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Posted: 14 April 2018 at 9:28pm | IP Logged | 10 post reply

To me, the Brave and the Bold sounds like a soap opera.
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Thomas Woods
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Posted: 14 April 2018 at 10:31pm | IP Logged | 11 post reply

I liked Alpha Flight back in the day, but Guardians,
North Guard, would have been catchy too.
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Robbie Parry
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Posted: 15 April 2018 at 5:40am | IP Logged | 12 post reply

Steven, I like The Brave and the Bold, too. As a kid, I always tried to work out which one was brave and which one was bold (even though they probably mean exactly the same thing). 

I liked DC COMICS PRESENTS, the Superman team-up title, but DC COMICS PRESENTS is a generic title, it could have been about anything.

I realise THE BRAVE AND THE BOLD sounds generic, too.
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Joe S. Walker
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Posted: 15 April 2018 at 5:19pm | IP Logged | 13 post reply

When it started THE BRAVE AND THE BOLD was an anthology title devoted to stories of ancient warriors. Somehow the title far outlived the book's original premise.
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Mike Norris
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Posted: 15 April 2018 at 8:18pm | IP Logged | 14 post reply

To me, the Brave and the Bold sounds like a soap opera.
************************************************************ **********************
That's the Brave, the Bold and the Beautiful. 
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Don Berner
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Posted: 15 April 2018 at 8:52pm | IP Logged | 15 post reply

James Johnson's comment about liking the name the First Line from generation lost reminded me how much it amused me at the time that that was essentially the same name as Alpha Flight.
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Matthew Wilkie
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Posted: 16 April 2018 at 1:16pm | IP Logged | 16 post reply

Anyone else remember Liberty Legion, Roy Thomas' attempt at creating a companion team to the Invaders based on 1940s' comic book heroes? Now if there was ever a Marvel team name that sounded like it should be at DC this was it!  
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Tim Cousar
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Posted: 16 April 2018 at 1:21pm | IP Logged | 17 post reply

A similar team at DC appeared in Freedom Fighters and was called "the Crusaders."
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Darren Ashmore
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Posted: 16 April 2018 at 1:45pm | IP Logged | 18 post reply

Maybe Tim knows this, but for those who don't - The Crusaders that appeared in Freedom Fighters (Americommando & Rusty (?), Barracuda, Fireball & Sparky) were a little unofficial DC/Marvel crossover.  At more or less the same time The Invaders also fought a group called The Crusaders consisting of The Spirit of 76, Captain Wings, Ghost Girl, Tommy Lightning and Dynamite, equivalents to Uncle Same, Black Condor, Phantom Lady, The Ray and Doll Man respectively. If memory serves it was a little concoction cooked up by Roy Thomas and Len Wein.
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Mike Norris
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Posted: 16 April 2018 at 3:56pm | IP Logged | 19 post reply

nyone else remember Liberty Legion, Roy Thomas' attempt at creating a companion team to the Invaders based on 1940s' comic book heroes? Now if there was ever a Marvel team name that sounded like it should be at DC this was it!  
************************************************************ ************************
Wow, I just realized what Roy did there: Liberty=Justice and Legion=Society. If he had slap "of America" on there it would be perfect (and have gotten sued) 
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Tim Cousar
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Posted: 16 April 2018 at 4:19pm | IP Logged | 20 post reply

Darren,

I was conflating the Crusaders on the Marvel side with the Liberty Legion. I recall having those issues of The Invaders and The Freedom Fighters.
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Robbie Parry
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Posted: 17 April 2018 at 1:04pm | IP Logged | 21 post reply

As a kid, I rather unimaginatively imagined crossovers between teams/concepts of the same names.

So...

Steed and Peel meet the Avengers
The Champions team up with the ITC version of the Champions
The Defenders battle the Defenders of the Earth
David Vincent teams up with the Invaders to battle invaders

And with single characters, too. Flash VS Flash Gordon, anyone? Erm, anyone? 
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Brian Hague
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Posted: 17 April 2018 at 4:20pm | IP Logged | 22 post reply

Mike, while the names have the similarities you suggest, the membership of Thomas' L.L. oddly paralleled his later All-Star Squadron... 


There's the fin-headed patriotic Johnny-Come-Lately (Steel and the Patriot); the nationally themed heroine (Liberty Belle and Miss America); the guy with the fast hands who's dating her (Johnny Quick and the Whizzer); the winged bird-man (Hawkman and the Red Raven); the durable tough guy (The Atom and Blue Diamond); and finally, the powder-blue non-human who feels alienated from the rest of the team (Robotman and Jack Frost.)

While Thomas did bring Plastic Man, the Thin Man's closest counterpart, into the Squadron, he did very little with him. Thomas later introduced Amazing-Man, a hero whose powers of physical transformation resembled those of Marvel's Absorbing Man. His costume colors of green and yellow are a good match for the Thin Man's. The Dannette Reilly Firebrand, Bucky, and Shining Knight are pretty much wild cards, although you could say that Firebrand's temperature-based powers are similar in nature to Frost's.


Edited by Brian Hague on 17 April 2018 at 4:29pm
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Eric Sofer
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Posted: 17 April 2018 at 4:30pm | IP Logged | 23 post reply

Brian, you do kind of a nice job. I'm gonna take a look...

Bucky - Both Robin and a connecting character between the Liberty Legion and the Invaders. Or possibly the Atom.
Blue Diamond - MAYBE Robotman? Or Steel?
Jack Frost - MAYBE Firebrand? (Maybe not... the two strike me as almost total opposites.)
Ms. America - Wonder Woman or Liberty Belle
The Patriot - Maybe Wonder Woman, or Commander Steel
Red Raven - Hawkman
The Thin Man - Plastic Man
The Whizzer - The Flash or Johnny Quick

The Atom - Bucky?
Dr. Mid-Nite - Maybe the Vision (who never appeared with the Liberty Legion, so...)
Firebrand - The Human Torch
Hawkman - Red Raven
Johnny Quick - The Whizzer
Liberty Belle - Ms. America
Robotman - The Human Robot (again, never with the Invaders.)
Shining Knight - Possibly Namor.
Steel - Possibly Blue Diamond?

I see a point that you're making, but I don't think Roy Thomas was going for counterparts. I think he just used who he had available (CONSIDERABLY more from DC than Marvel.)
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Brian Hague
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Posted: 17 April 2018 at 4:48pm | IP Logged | 24 post reply

Eric, I wasn't saying that Thomas set out to construct a team of counterparts. I was just finding it odd that what's we wound up with when examining the smaller version of the team Thomas fielded in the early issues.

The later Squadron, which was said to include not only the JSA, but also all the other Golden Age DC, Fawcett, and National heroes as well, is a different, and much larger, kettle of fish. You could find counterparts a-plenty in amongst that crowd for just about any team.

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Drew Spence
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Posted: 18 April 2018 at 6:28am | IP Logged | 25 post reply

I like Alpha Flight....it sounded like the maiden voyage or first steps of a new team. NEXT Men should have been the successor team to the X-Men.That would have been awesome. Perfect name.

X-Factor I think is the play on the definition of an X-factor. As in, unknown thing or ingredient. I never thought it was the sound, instead it was the definition that made it a choice.

As stated, the number of members hinted at- matters. Hellfire Club. Sounds tight and small- mutually exclusive. Legion is exactly that, but when the names/membership gets too big - I always feel like they'll let anybody in and probably have a few bums. lol

How do we feel about the word THE in front of a team. Needed, extraneous? I still read it as epic. I never gelled with adjectives...
The Incredible, Uncanny, Amazing, Spectac- well, before team names too. Once the best descriptors were taken, it was like ANY kind of boastful word was usable.
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