Active Topics | Member List | Search | Help | Register | Login
The John Byrne Forum
Byrne Robotics > The John Byrne Forum Page of 2 Next >>
Topic: Holy Artifacts and Vampires Post ReplyPost New Topic
Author
Message
John Byrne
Avatar
Imaginary X-Man

Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 112766
Posted: 11 May 2018 at 2:29pm | IP Logged | 1 post reply

So, a bit of drift in another episode thread got me wondering.

Is the power of the Cross to stop vampires due to the faith of the one weilding it, or the former faith of the vampire? Would a formerly Jewish vampire yeild to a Star of David even if a Catholic was holding it?

What would work on a vampire who'd been an atheist? A copy of Christopher Hitchens?

Back to Top profile | search
 
Michael Penn
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 12 April 2006
Location: United States
Posts: 10224
Posted: 11 May 2018 at 2:44pm | IP Logged | 2 post reply

Chris Claremont had Wolverine fail to stop Dracula by making a cross with his claws -- but then Nightcrawler felled him with two sticks. Mr. Claremont also had Dracula grab Kitty by the neck and her Star of David necklace burned Dracula's hand.

It's a strange dynamic to ponder, though. The particular vampire might have had a belief during life -- does his human adversary have to possess the same belief... or just any belief? What if the vampire became such as a believer in Thor? Would he have carte blanche the world over today? (Or would, in the Marvel Universe, merely seeing Thor himself just cause that vampire to instantly explode?)

Would a statue of Buddha really be like a crucifix?!
Back to Top profile | search
 
Eric Sofer
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 31 January 2014
Location: United States
Posts: 2520
Posted: 11 May 2018 at 3:09pm | IP Logged | 3 post reply

Jews cannot become vampires. Why don't vampires attack Jewish Lawyers and Bankers?

Professional courtesy.

Perhaps an aspect of becoming a vampire is that one was a worshiper of Christ in some aspect?

Maybe that's a type of "population" control. The ultimate predators can't do too much, or their population would starve itself out. I mean, let's be honest... when we kill a cow and eat it, it doesn't get resurrected as a carnivore.
Back to Top profile | search
 
Dave Kopperman
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 27 December 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 1670
Posted: 11 May 2018 at 3:54pm | IP Logged | 4 post reply

 Eric Sofer wrote:
Why don't vampires attack Jewish Lawyers and Bankers? Professional courtesy.

Dude, from one Jew to another, wtf?
Back to Top profile | search | www
 
Mal Gardiner
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 28 April 2008
Location: Australia
Posts: 438
Posted: 11 May 2018 at 4:02pm | IP Logged | 5 post reply

Stephen King explored exactly that theme in Salem’s Lot. Father Callahan faced down Barlow the vampire, started to doubt the power of his faith, and suddenly he was just holding two sticks. I like the concept, otherwise vampires would be utterly hamstrung because there is religious iconography everywhere. I think it means the vampire has faith in the faith of the wielder, regardless of the religion employed.

*slight grammar edits*


Edited by Mal Gardiner on 11 May 2018 at 4:04pm
Back to Top profile | search
 
Robbie Parry
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 17 June 2007
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 11933
Posted: 11 May 2018 at 4:06pm | IP Logged | 6 post reply

 John Byrne wrote:
What would work on a vampire who'd been an atheist?

Yes, how would it affect me if I was a vampire? I can't imagine the cross would have me recoiling in horror!
Back to Top profile | search
 
Andy Mokler
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 20 January 2006
Location: United States
Posts: 2539
Posted: 11 May 2018 at 5:41pm | IP Logged | 7 post reply

Not sure if a new thread would be preferred but JB, do you have any thoughts or feelings about Hitchens?  I've only recently discovered him on YouTube but with my bias, find him very compelling and entertaining.
Back to Top profile | search e-mail
 
Andy Mokler
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 20 January 2006
Location: United States
Posts: 2539
Posted: 11 May 2018 at 5:42pm | IP Logged | 8 post reply

Vampires are a polite bunch, aren't they?  Respecting religion, waiting for permission to enter...all in all, they give you a sporting chance at least.
Back to Top profile | search e-mail
 
Eric Jansen
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 27 October 2013
Location: United States
Posts: 1395
Posted: 11 May 2018 at 5:51pm | IP Logged | 9 post reply

DRACULA 2000 was not a great movie, but I thought the revelation that Dracula was in fact Judas Iscariot was sort of brilliant.  Not only did the revelation explain why he cowered from the cross, but it even explained the vampire's aversion to silver--it reminded him of the 30 pieces of silver he took to betray Jesus.
Back to Top profile | search
 
Doug Centers
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 17 February 2014
Location: United States
Posts: 3311
Posted: 11 May 2018 at 6:08pm | IP Logged | 10 post reply

One of my favorite vampire scenes!

LINK
Back to Top profile | search
 
Mike Norris
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 4053
Posted: 11 May 2018 at 6:57pm | IP Logged | 11 post reply

I am reminded of the classic punch line

"Oye vey, have you got the wrong vampire!". 
Back to Top profile | search e-mail
 
Peter Martin
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 17 March 2008
Location: Canada
Posts: 11050
Posted: 11 May 2018 at 7:02pm | IP Logged | 12 post reply

I think it is neither in the power of the wielder, nor in the former faith of the vampire; I think it is supposed to be an absolute power, at least as formulated by Stoker.

The holy wafer stops a vampire no matter what, because in Stoker's world, the power of God is absolute.

Then again, the rules for vampires are so messed up. They haven't been observed since the outset. In Stoker's novel, Dracula's daytime weakness is basically that he can't shift form. No one has ever utilised the vampire's power to shrink so that they can fit through cracks, bar Stoker. 
Back to Top profile | search
 
Thomas Woods
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 09 June 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 1085
Posted: 11 May 2018 at 7:24pm | IP Logged | 13 post reply

I think it triggers them, so they freak out.

Like an evolutionist finding a human skull next to a
dinosaur.

But seriously, I think Vampires are one step away from
demons, so anything Christ related freaks them the hell
out.

I feel the correct way for a writer to do it, is it has
to do with holy or blessed objects. Anything holy will
be like sunlight striking them.

Edited by Thomas Woods on 11 May 2018 at 7:33pm
Back to Top profile | search | www
 
Adam Schulman
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 22 July 2017
Posts: 779
Posted: 11 May 2018 at 8:20pm | IP Logged | 14 post reply

Didn't Marvel publish a graphic novel called GREENBERG THE VAMPIRE in the 1980s?
Back to Top profile | search
 
Adam Schulman
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 22 July 2017
Posts: 779
Posted: 11 May 2018 at 8:21pm | IP Logged | 15 post reply

Or would, in the Marvel Universe, merely seeing Thor himself just cause that vampire to instantly explode?

***

I think there was a Thor/Dracula fight in the pages of THOR at some point before the Walt Simonson years.
Back to Top profile | search
 
Matt Hawes
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 14449
Posted: 11 May 2018 at 9:16pm | IP Logged | 16 post reply

My feeling is that the cross (or whatever religious symbol) is a focus for one's will power in resisting vampires. Since most people put faith in a higher being, that will power is filtered through the object of one's faith.
Back to Top profile | search | www
 
Brian Floyd
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 07 July 2006
Location: United States
Posts: 6038
Posted: 11 May 2018 at 11:54pm | IP Logged | 17 post reply

Most movies I've watched or books I've read had it depend on the faith of the person using the object. So that if they had no faith at all, the object would have no effect.

On the other hand, I've read a few (very few) books and seen a movie or two where the objects had no effect because the vampire was an atheist while alive.

Personally, I'd go with the former. A vampire is an undead, unholy being. It shouldn't matter what they did or didn't believe it before being turned.

Not sure if the object has to represent he same faith as the wielder, though.
Back to Top profile | search e-mail
 
Petter Myhr Ness
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 02 July 2009
Location: Norway
Posts: 2906
Posted: 12 May 2018 at 2:27am | IP Logged | 18 post reply

The Cross represents drawing power from God to ward off forces of evil, so technically any religious symbolic object should do. 

But in Anne Rice's INTERVIEW WITH THE VAMPIRE, crosses have no effect on vampires whatsoever. The mythology varies. 
Back to Top profile | search
 
Bill Collins
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 26 May 2005
Location: England
Posts: 10276
Posted: 12 May 2018 at 6:07am | IP Logged | 19 post reply

If you`re an atheist you don`t believe in god, so maybe
you don`t believe in vampires either and that means they
can`t touch you!
Back to Top profile | search e-mail
 
Matt Hawes
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 14449
Posted: 12 May 2018 at 6:28am | IP Logged | 20 post reply

In a world where vampires exist, I'd think people would start questioning what they do or do not believe in. 
Back to Top profile | search | www
 
John Byrne
Avatar
Imaginary X-Man

Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 112766
Posted: 12 May 2018 at 6:36am | IP Logged | 21 post reply

My thought, too, Matt. Classic vampire lore is, at least in Europe, so deeply rooted in Christian mythology that actually meeting one would demand a serious reassessment of one's stance on atheism.
Back to Top profile | search
 
Rod Collins
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: Australia
Posts: 531
Posted: 12 May 2018 at 6:47am | IP Logged | 22 post reply

Would a copy of Richard Dawkin's "The God Delusion" work on an atheist vampire?
Back to Top profile | search
 
Eric Sofer
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 31 January 2014
Location: United States
Posts: 2520
Posted: 12 May 2018 at 9:48am | IP Logged | 23 post reply

Dave Kopperman - WTF? It's a Jewish joke. I apologize profusely if you're a banker or attorney... I didn't mean to be insensitive to you.

Adam S. - "Greenberg the Vampire" was a story in Bizarre Adventures, and then Marvel had a Graphic Novel made of it. I think the short was incredible, and the GN was a little too long and a touch... inaccessible.

If I encountered a vampire, I'm not sure my first reaction would be a serious theological reevaluation. :)
Back to Top profile | search
 
John Byrne
Avatar
Imaginary X-Man

Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 112766
Posted: 12 May 2018 at 9:52am | IP Logged | 24 post reply

Not necessarily a FIRST reaction. That would be more along the lines of immediately assuming I'd lost my mind.

"Had it right here when I came in..."

Back to Top profile | search
 
John Byrne
Avatar
Imaginary X-Man

Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 112766
Posted: 12 May 2018 at 9:54am | IP Logged | 25 post reply

Not sure if a new thread would be preferred but JB, do you have any thoughts or feelings about Hitchens? I've only recently discovered him on YouTube but with my bias, find him very compelling and entertaining.

•••

A good description. Unfortunately, also a pompous ass.

Back to Top profile | search
 

Page of 2 Next >>
  Post ReplyPost New Topic
Printable version Printable version

Forum Jump
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot create polls in this forum
You can vote in polls in this forum

 Active Topics | Member List | Search | Help | Register | Login