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Jeff Scott Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 27 November 2016 Location: United States Posts: 238
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Posted: 18 May 2018 at 6:56pm | IP Logged | 1
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This world is going insane!!
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Steven Myers Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 10 June 2004 Location: United States Posts: 5624
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Posted: 18 May 2018 at 7:58pm | IP Logged | 2
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I think those of the next generation that survive are going to be pretty sick of guns. By that, I mean the easy access (see comment on Canada above) mostly. Change can happen, and victims/friends/relatives are a major force. It happened with our DUI laws and attitude. So don't give up!
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Michael Sommerville Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 12 April 2010 Location: Canada Posts: 417
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Posted: 19 May 2018 at 1:53am | IP Logged | 3
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What gun control laws would have prevented this shooting? What gun laws would have kept these guns out of this persons hands? The one nobody is willing to say because it is an impossibility. Take away the second amendment and the NRA, it will not take away the guns. Few countries have a right to bear arms but most allow access to some types of guns. The only way these shootings will be stopped is taking away all guns but nobody will say it.
I keep hearing, listen to the children, but that is not a solution. This issue is more complex than no NRA money, assault rifle bans or trying to get the "right" people elected. The last Democratic controlled Congress and Presidency did not enact stricter laws. Again, the guns used, in this shooting, are ones a majority of Americans do not oppose.
Stop the blame and condemnation of those other than the killers. No one wants kids to die, not even the NRA, anti-gun control people and politicians. Put forward attainable goals, take those baby steps and get closer. Any progress gets you closer to the win, standing still demanding that you win gets you nowhere.
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Joe Zhang Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004 Location: United States Posts: 12857
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Posted: 19 May 2018 at 3:44am | IP Logged | 4
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Can't take away the guns, but stop all production and importation of bullets and gunpowder. The gun freaks will run out of bullets to shoot sooner or later.
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Leigh DJ Hunt Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 20 February 2008 Location: United Kingdom Posts: 1570
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Posted: 19 May 2018 at 5:10am | IP Logged | 5
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Saw a police statement refer to it as an "unthinkable tragedy". How is it unthinkable when it happens so often.
Far more real was a student who when asked if she ever thought such a terrible thing could happen in her school answered 'yes, of course, it was always on her mind that it would'. What an awful thing for kids to have to stress about on top of everything else.
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Steven Myers Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 10 June 2004 Location: United States Posts: 5624
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Posted: 19 May 2018 at 6:59am | IP Logged | 6
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What gun control laws would have prevented this shooting? ----------------------
Just because we can't prevent every gun death, doesn't mean we can't reduce the number. As my example of DUIs, we haven't gotten the DUI number to zero, but we have cut it by more than half since we got serious about DUI laws.
What does the science say? https://www.cbsnews.com/news/50-state-study-more-g un-laws-fewer-deaths/
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005 Posts: 132275
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Posted: 19 May 2018 at 8:47am | IP Logged | 7
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Currently I'm rereading THE LAST GUNFIGHT, by Jeff Guinn, and I'm reminded yet again that too many Americans imagine themselves as literal sons of the pioneers, ready to defend themselves against all comers -- even the Government.
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005 Posts: 132275
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Posted: 19 May 2018 at 8:50am | IP Logged | 8
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...too soon to talk about gun control. ••• "Well, Mr Jones, you have a very advanced case of cancer, but it's too soon to talk about it."
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Eric Sofer Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 31 January 2014 Location: United States Posts: 4789
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Posted: 19 May 2018 at 9:35am | IP Logged | 9
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Michael S., you refer to this shooting and this shooter, and what gun laws would have stopped this. I have heard this from many corners... "a control on assault rifles wouldn't stop a shooter from using a handgun in this tragedy."
Referring to a single incident and how could it have been stopped has, as has been noted under separate cover, one simple solution; shoot the attacker before he can kill anyone. One death instead of multiple.
This concept is preposterous. Even if somehow protection could be provided to so many different venues - even just schools - would be expensive, inefficient, and treatment of a symptom - not a problem. And not only do I feel that it would stop shootings, but some of these insane bastards might see it as a CHALLENGE!
Gun control laws - even mild ones - will not change anything today, or tomorrow, or next Wednesday. But they WILL change things in a few years, even if only to a limited degree, and as Michael S. splendidly observed - TAKE THOSE BABY STEPS.
Had such legislation been enacted ten years ago, we might not be discussing that such occurrences seem to be a daily event - or even four or five times weekly. The river doesn't start and immediately hit the bottom of the mountain - but it WILL get there, and when it does, the effects will be impressive.
Just because an action doesn't have immediate effect is no indicator that it will not do tremendous good in the future. Investing and Social Security are predicated on that concept.
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James Johnson Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 March 2009 Location: United States Posts: 2057
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Posted: 19 May 2018 at 2:24pm | IP Logged | 10
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The National Door Association (NDA) is not going to like this plan.
Politicians could lose millions in funding.
:-/
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Peter Martin Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 17 March 2008 Location: Canada Posts: 15793
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Posted: 19 May 2018 at 6:11pm | IP Logged | 11
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Stop the blame and condemnation of those other than the killers ------------------------------------------------------------ ---- This is a pretty bury-your-head-in-the-sand notion. Never regulate anything, because it is never the fault of anyone who shapes society on a large-scale, merely the actions of the individual that is to blame.
There is a problem on which we can all agree, as you alluded to in your post, Michael, which is kids being shot to death. It sounds like you understand the problem stems from too many guns.
Where we diverge is that you say the guns are already here and tightening regulations will not get rid of those guns.
However, consider when cars were built without seatbelts and fatalities from road accidents were far higher. Laws were enacted to remedy the problem. Car manufacturers were forced to put belts in new cars. Old cars remained grandfathered in. The millions of extant, unsafe cars were not an argument for maintaining the old, flawed regulations. In time, the cars with seatbelts outnumbered the less safe ones. Then regulations were tightened further to make wearing the damn things compulsory. Then they decided that having belts in the back should be compulsory. Once again, all the millions of cars on the road that didn't have belts in the back, did not mean that this new law was pointless or destined to fail. It just needed time.
The argument that a law that will prevent deaths in the longterm is pointless because it will not immediately prevent a death in the now is an empty argument.
Edited by Peter Martin on 19 May 2018 at 6:12pm
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Rebecca Jansen Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 12 February 2018 Location: Canada Posts: 4520
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Posted: 19 May 2018 at 7:14pm | IP Logged | 12
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Or we can simply wait until someone can invent bulletproof bodies stockings for everyone. That might happen sooner than the human species becomes logical and sane.
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