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Topic: Is ethics and nonkilling a weakness? Post ReplyPost New Topic
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Sergio Saavedra
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Posted: 21 May 2018 at 4:00pm | IP Logged | 1 post reply

Although I'm going to give examples from TV series, my thoughts are about superheroes in general, so I'll post it here.
In a review about Agents of SHIELD finale I found this:
"Admittedly, when they all voted for Mack to pick up the mantle of director, it seemed odd because Mack is the most emotional person of the bunch. . . .They all wanted the guy who stubbornly always does the morally superior thing to take the helm. "
On the one hand, Mack is actually the least emotional member of the team, but on the other, I think this person mistakes morality for emotionalism. And this sounds as if ethics and morality were something bad.
Also, on TV series I find more and more situations in which the bad guy brags that the hero won't kill him because he has that stupid rule, while the good guy puts on a distressed face. 
I feel this is a view from people outside the world of comics, but that is leaking in the world of comics.
The fact that having ethics, having principles, and not being a homicide are seen as weaknesses. Whereas I think that is precisely a strenght of the hero. I mean, the hero is so superior morally that he does not resort to the shortcut of killing the villain, and he is so powerful that he does not need to.
But it seems that some people don't get it and think that heroes have to be something like Charles Bronson or Steven Seagal, and anyone less murderous is a sissy.
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John Byrne
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Posted: 21 May 2018 at 4:46pm | IP Logged | 2 post reply

No.
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James Woodcock
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Posted: 21 May 2018 at 6:09pm | IP Logged | 3 post reply

I have grown tired of films that show the only solution to righting a wrong is to kill the person. & by kill, I mean personally kill.

I do feel that this in some way has contributed to a perceived (by me @ least) situation where prison for crimes is not enough.

Remember, the Punisher started out as a bad guy.
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Don Berner
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Posted: 21 May 2018 at 9:57pm | IP Logged | 4 post reply

lol
"Remember the Punisher started out as a bad guy"-too true.
But I chuckle because I believe he still is. Being a protagonist and a hero are two different things.
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Conrad Teves
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Posted: 21 May 2018 at 10:16pm | IP Logged | 5 post reply

Even for the Bad Guy, I think there is no greater sign of strength than an enemy's continued existence being of no consequence.

Don>>Being a protagonist and a hero are two different things.<<

Yes, as are the villain and antagonist. It's a rarer ploy, but you can even split the hero/protagonist etc. into different characters. Even possible to have the first-person protagonist be the villain. (Keith Laumer's "Once There Was A Giant" comes to mind)
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Peter Martin
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Posted: 21 May 2018 at 10:17pm | IP Logged | 6 post reply

One of the key rationales behind heroic fiction is to provide us with a high watermark to aim at. Sometimes dramatic tension can be wrought from this hallmark of the genre by having the hero bristle against such a constraint, but it misses the point of a hero if rarefied morals are seen as a weakness. They are what sets him or her apart as that noble other in the story, the person who comes from us, but stands apart from us, and helps us to transcend from that state in which we previously found ourselves.

Edited by Peter Martin on 21 May 2018 at 10:21pm
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Thomas Woods
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Posted: 21 May 2018 at 11:13pm | IP Logged | 7 post reply

I watched clips of the movie Logan, and I was actually
shocked at how casual the killing was. Same in more
recent movies.

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Bill Collins
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Posted: 22 May 2018 at 12:40am | IP Logged | 8 post reply

Often doing the right thing is the hard choice, killing
may be the easy solution, but it`s not right. Superhero
stories used to teach us that.
Last week i humanely released two bees and a wasp
outside after they wandered into the house, despite
having a fly curtain over the door(Using a clear glass
and a piece of card). One of my friends berated me over
the wasp! Yes, it would have been easy to kill it, but
it`s a living creature that plays a role in the eco
system, in my eyes i made the right choice.
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Sergio Saavedra
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Posted: 22 May 2018 at 7:22am | IP Logged | 9 post reply

Most people blithely expect the protagonists to kill as the solution to their problems. OK, we could consider it creative license, but it is funny that it is so difficult for them to accept nonkilling, when nonkilling is the "default option" in real life.
Also, I think doing the right thing usually requires more fortitude and nobility.
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John Byrne
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Posted: 22 May 2018 at 7:23am | IP Logged | 10 post reply

Sometimes the only solution is to kill, but that does not make it the best solution.

(I recall a scene from a movie, altho I cannot recall which, or who the characters were. Anyway, the bad guy is monologging, and he says he does not like to kill his enemies. He considers it a failure on his part if the only way he can deal with a problem is to kill someone.)

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Vinny Valenti
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Posted: 22 May 2018 at 8:24am | IP Logged | 11 post reply

CIVIL WAR Spoilers:

I did like how Black Panther refused to kill Baron Zemo at the end of the movie, even though he was responsible for his father's death.

Kinda sad that I have to consider that to be refreshing!
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Eric Sofer
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Posted: 22 May 2018 at 9:42am | IP Logged | 12 post reply

Ethics and moral sense are not weakness. Refraining from killing is not a weakness.

But the pendulum swings both ways. Sometimes action must be taken despite a moral code, or a code against killing.

This isn't comics, where "must kill" situations are the result of bad writing. If someone is about to shoot my wife and I have a gun, I'm going to shoot. I don't want to kill someone, and the shooter might have a very good reason or rationale... but in reality, I may not have time to discuss it with this nutjob.

And that's part of the question about ethics. Do your beliefs prevent from killing under any possible circumstances? That's okay - one has to believe something and adhere to those beliefs - but the rest of the world may not respect or recognize that decision. THAT is where the test of morals comes into play... does one maintain the courage of their convictions when a situation will plain not allow such convictions to have a satisfactory conclusion?
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