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John Byrne
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Grumpy Old Guy

Joined: 11 May 2005
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Posted: 24 May 2018 at 10:33am | IP Logged | 1 post reply
My 9th grade Social Studies teacher, a very bright guy, taught us that patriotic symbols, like flags and anthems, by definition had multiple purposes. Among those were protests. When people get upset because someone burns the flag, they miss the point that being burned, that being a focus of protest, is part of what a flag is for. So is taking a knee when the anthem is being sung.

It's called Freedom of Expression, and without it this Nation is in big trouble.

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Michael Roberts
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Posted: 24 May 2018 at 10:34am | IP Logged | 2 post reply
Recently an artist for a Marvel comic added some visuals into the book as a form of protest, the company took steps to correct that action including firing the artist.  If I choose to protest in my office by banging pots and pans together during work hours, I would expect to be fired.

——

Are either of those analogous to a player kneeling BEFORE the game? If the players stopped mid-play to stage a protest, I’d agree that the NFL should take action.
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Marc Baptiste
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Posted: 24 May 2018 at 10:56am | IP Logged | 3 post reply
Eric,

I don't think it's "staggeringly complicated" at all!  FORCING people to stand for something completely negates the point.

Marc
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Andy Mokler
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Posted: 24 May 2018 at 11:41am | IP Logged | 4 post reply
If the players were kneeling to protest something the owners/league were doing then I'd be all for it.  Dragging the NFL into arenas that it does not endorse or support and that ultimately costs their business money makes me not side with the players in this case.
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Eric Doyle
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Posted: 24 May 2018 at 11:45am | IP Logged | 5 post reply
I don't think it's "staggeringly complicated" at all!  FORCING people to stand for something completely negates the point.
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- Stay in the locker room
- Stand for the anthem
- Kneel and get a fine

They have 3 choices, 2 of them are non-standing choices, so hardly being forced. 

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Are either of those analogous to a player kneeling BEFORE the game?
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OK, I go to my workplace, clock in, but before I start work I go to the companies lobby where potential customers or clients may be and hold up a protest sign while wearing a shirt with company logo on it, you are OK with that?  It's before I started working. 

If the players want to go to a public place burn flags, pray, spit in the wind or any other action on their dime, and NFL wants to take action against them, I would call unfair.  They are asking to use the NFL to support their protest while wearing the NFL uniform, on an NFL network at a NFL sponsored event, the NFL has a right to say not on our dime. 



Edited by Eric Doyle on 24 May 2018 at 11:51am
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Rebecca Jansen
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Posted: 24 May 2018 at 12:32pm | IP Logged | 6 post reply
People come before things. If I have to choose between a flag and people I go with the people, every single time. Donald Trump when given a vet's purple heart medal on stage said "I always wanted one of these", and that pretty,much sums up how much he actually cares or respects any U.S. symbols!

Land of the free. Could this be another job for 'give slack, get slack'? It shouldn't be possible in a liberty loving democracy for an employer or landlord or retail outfit to impose on the liberties of others. Landlords should not be able to rent only to certain kinds of preferred people, cake shops to sell cakes only after quizzing the buyer to make sure they agree on core issues, or employing somebody being able to tell them things they can't say that are unrelated to their job (nor who to vote for or bad things will happen).
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Jabari Lamar
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Posted: 24 May 2018 at 1:22pm | IP Logged | 7 post reply
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Wilson Mui
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Posted: 24 May 2018 at 2:08pm | IP Logged | 8 post reply
Yeah, this is fake patriotism by the NFL and its
supporters.
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Dave Phelps
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Posted: 24 May 2018 at 3:07pm | IP Logged | 9 post reply
I'm just still trying to figure out when taking a knee became disrespectful.
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Byron Graham
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Posted: 24 May 2018 at 3:17pm | IP Logged | 10 post reply
Taking a knee is not disrespectful. Zod commands it!
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Michael Roberts
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Posted: 24 May 2018 at 5:27pm | IP Logged | 11 post reply
https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/nfl-owners-reportedly-did nt-vote-on-the-leagues-new-national-anthem-policy/

With two owners claiming that they did not vote for this and another offering to pay fines for players who choose to protest, how exactly was this a "unanimous" vote?
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Eric Sofer
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Posted: 24 May 2018 at 5:30pm | IP Logged | 12 post reply
Marc B. - for a lot of jobs, employees are "forced" to dress in a business suitable manner. They are "forced" to eat lunch at a certain time, and sometimes take breaks at a certain time. They are "forced" to come in to the office to work, even if they could do the job from home.

So in one sense, you are quite correct. If an NFL player doesn't want to have to stand for the national anthem - which, as noted, they are NOT - then they can leave and find another job. It's simple.

There are two sides to this situation, and I see a lot of good points both ways. To ME it's complicated - but it is indeed quite simple in practice. Do what the boss says or you're fired. 
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