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Petter Myhr Ness
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 02 July 2009
Location: Norway
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| Posted: 27 May 2018 at 3:08pm | IP Logged | 1
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I'll say it again: Black actors deserve their own characters.--
If I were a religious man, I'd say Amen to that!
Let Idris Elba, to stick with him, keep portraying memorable characters in his own right, as he has with Luther, Stringer Bell and more.
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Michael Roberts
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 20 April 2004
Location: United States
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| Posted: 27 May 2018 at 3:36pm | IP Logged | 2
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The Irish, and Italians for example, and other immigrants from Southern Europe, were not considered 'white' for most of US history. Roman Catholics were not considered 'Christian' for most of US history, and still aren't in much of the South.
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Certainly, the Irish and Italians, among other European immigrant groups, were discriminated against, but it wasn’t actually illegal for them to marry a “white” person in the same way that it was for a black person. As much as the bigots declared them not “white”, they were still not exactly “non-white”. And today, those groups have been accepted into the “white” identity in a way that blacks, Hispanics, and Asians haven’t, even though some of these groups have been in the US just as long, if not longer. No one is barging into St. Patrick’s Day parties or Oktoberfests, yelling at partygoers to be American, and threatening to call ICE on them.
I get your points, and I think they are valid, but even then, you can’t ignore that there’s a white category that some ethnicities aren’t invited to.
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Steve De Young
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 01 April 2008
Location: United States
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| Posted: 27 May 2018 at 5:10pm | IP Logged | 3
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I think white, black, Asian, etc. are labels, not identities with cultures and histories behind them. I think people are told that they are one of these labels. I’ve never met anyone who sees themselves as Asian. They see themselves as Korean American, for example, and are categorized by others as Asian, which lumps them together with other groups with whom they don’t have shared history. Chinese and Japanese people are both called Asian, Jews and Germans are both white. A Nigerian immigrant and an African American whose family history in this country goes back generations longer than mine are both black.
So, on topic to the thread, there are a variety of different backgrounds and histories within ‘British’ that are relevant beyond ‘white’. Is a character welsh? Scots? Irish? From a Catholic or Protestant family in North Ireland? English? From the city or the country? Did their family spend time or have connections to the commonwealth or the colonies? Upper class? Working class?
All of these finer points are part of what makes a character or a person tick. A character that is just ‘a white guy’, or ‘a black guy’ is a really poorly defined character.
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Michael Roberts
Byrne Robotics Member
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Location: United States
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| Posted: 27 May 2018 at 7:21pm | IP Logged | 4
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I’ve never met anyone who sees themselves as Asian. They see themselves as Korean American, for example, and are categorized by others as Asian, which lumps them together with other groups with whom they don’t have shared history.
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Actually being Asian-American, you could have fooled me. Who were those people that tried to drag me to the Asian Pacific Coalition and the Asian Student Union when I was in college? Were the high school friends of mine who joined the Asian frats a figment of my imagination? I’d say whatever the ethnicity, Asian-Americans of different stripes have more in common with each other than with the ethnicities of their parents. It’s a shared experience of being perceived a certain way.
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Peter Martin
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 17 March 2008
Location: Canada
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| Posted: 27 May 2018 at 8:36pm | IP Logged | 5
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Bond's mum is Swiss and his Dad is Scottish, but even that is kind of a retcon, the Scottish part being added by Fleming as a tip of a hat to Connery's success in the role. I have little doubt that Bond was, to a significant degree, an augmented, fictionalised version of Fleming himself.
A naval intelligence officer, educated at Eton and then later at the University of Geneva, a heavy smoker and drinker, fascinated by fast cars and fond of travel, with the caribbean an oft-visited destination.
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Petter Myhr Ness
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 02 July 2009
Location: Norway
Posts: 3838
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| Posted: 30 May 2018 at 12:59am | IP Logged | 6
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Reports has it that Craig has signed on for TWO Bond films, including Bond 25. If accurate, that should put him firmly in the Roger Moore range age-wise when Bond 26 is released.
Sean Connery once declared: "Bond should be played by an actor 35, 33 years old."...
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Eric Jansen
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Joined: 27 October 2013
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| Posted: 30 May 2018 at 2:11am | IP Logged | 7
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From John Griswald's Ian Fleming's James Bond: Anotations and Chronologies--
Moonraker implies he was 37 in 1954 (he has 8 years until he loses his 00 status at age 45) making his birth year 1917.
Goldfinger took place in 1957. It also says Bond has been a 00 for six years.
I think an actor playing him should be about 35-45 years old, giving him ten years to make 3 or 4 movies. But, depending on the actor and the story, there's always room for exceptions and I'm okay with 50 year-old Daniel Craig making one more movie.
Edited by Eric Jansen on 30 May 2018 at 2:14am
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
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| Posted: 30 May 2018 at 7:36am | IP Logged | 8
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Fleming began ignoring his own timeline pretty quickly. There were ten books after MOONRAKER -- eleven if we count the post mortem OCTOPUSSY AND THE LIVING DAYLIGHTS -- coming out roughly one per year. Past the "deadline" established in MOONRAKER.In that time, Fleming did nothing to suggest Bond was aging. He slipped into comicbook time, basically, with each new book compressing the timeline of the ones that came before. It wasn't really 12 years between CASINO ROYALE and THE MAN WITH THE GOLDEN GUN. If Bond was 37 in MOONRAKER, 37 was pretty much a constant -- like Superman being eternally 29. And remember, I was buying some of these books as they came out.* It was a surprise to find Bond was eight years from retirement, since I'd read the newer books first. _________________________ * One cool thing: when we visited England in 1965 I was able to pick up the hardcovers of all the books that had come out up to then, and the latest hardcover became the standard birthday present from my grandparents for the next few years. Sometimes there are good things about geezerhood.
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Eric Jansen
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| Posted: 30 May 2018 at 11:46pm | IP Logged | 9
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Oh, I was just pointing out that Fleming considered Bond to be in his late 30's, a mature man. It's a little silly for Connery to suggest a 33 year-old would work. That's too young. I really do think that age-health has changed through the years. I know some 30 year-olds that seem like kids; a 33 year-old is barely old enough to have started his career these days, much less be an experienced agent. Fleming's 37 year-old in the 50's or 60's might be equivalent to a 45 (or so) year-old now.
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John Byrne
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| Posted: 31 May 2018 at 4:28am | IP Logged | 10
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It's a little silly for Connery to suggest a 33 year-old would work. That's too young. ••• Hardly "silly". Connery himself was that age when he first played Bond. I don't recall anyone complaining he was too young.
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Mark Waldman
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| Posted: 31 May 2018 at 10:10pm | IP Logged | 11
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It's been an interesting time for Bond. The movies take longer and longer to make so Craig, already a somewhat curious choice for Bond (compared to those who played the character in the past), now has the age thing to contend with.
As a longtime fan of 007, I'm fine with Craig finishing up, hopefully with a great film - though Danny Boyle even is a controversial choice. I'm pretty sure 25 will be great though. Craig imo has breathed a lot of life into the character, taking him in different directions, which was probably necessary due to Bond no longer being the only spy action film franchise on the landscape. Some backstory and continuity within Craig's arc haven't been bad things. The box office also supports Bond still being a beloved film franchise, 50 years after its debut.
I'm intrigued to see what comes next. I wish they'd cast the next Bond and start a film simultaneously, so after 25 comes out, the next would be on its heels. It would be wonderful if they could get back to an every other year schedule.
I'm also open to whoever plays the part, as long as its someone great. I love Idris Elba but he's too old. I'd prefer he play Luther or if he wants to be in the Bond universe, plenty of room as another character. I'd save the other pseudo stunt casting ideas - women, other races, etc. for the same thing - other characters. I think there is so much untapped potential in this universe, room for other 00 characters, villains, etc., there's plenty of room for all good ideas.
I am a Bond devotee - still rewatching all the favorites and to me, Craig has been great. I think it's part his toughness but also the quality of the films. The franchise had some rust here and there from Roger's latter years to Dalton to Brosnan - subpar scripts, cheesy, etc. I think by and large what I appreciate of Craig's films (sans for Quantum) are they are just better MOVIES than many of the more recent efforts.
If anyone cares, the latest Bond novel just came out in the UK, so if you're a fan of Bond, maybe look into that, as well as checking out the James Bond Radio podcast, which you can find via Facebook or on Stitcher, if you subscribe to that. Here's to another 25!
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Matt Reed
Byrne Robotics Security
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| Posted: 31 May 2018 at 11:43pm | IP Logged | 12
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Steve De Young wrote:
| I think white, black, Asian, etc. are labels, not identities with cultures and histories behind them. |
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Michael Roberts called this into question and I think it was wise. No one picked up on it, so I will. Saying being "white" is just a label feels...wrong to me. Just as you say being "black" is just a label.
Without going further, I'd ask you to explain how being "Asian" is just a label without a "culture and history behind it". How is being "black" just a "label" not an identity? Do you dismiss race altogether as a way to identify?
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