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Topic: Ireland Enters the 21st Century Post ReplyPost New Topic
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Bill Collins
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Joined: 26 May 2005
Location: England
Posts: 11247
Posted: 27 May 2018 at 1:15am | IP Logged | 1 post reply

`Would it be considered progressive to give men an opt
out?`

It`s called a condom.
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Adam Schulman
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Joined: 22 July 2017
Posts: 1717
Posted: 27 May 2018 at 2:06pm | IP Logged | 2 post reply

Enters the 21st century? Hell, enters the mid-20th century!
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Petter Myhr Ness
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Joined: 02 July 2009
Location: Norway
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Posted: 27 May 2018 at 3:09pm | IP Logged | 3 post reply

About bleedin' time!
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Eric Kleefeld
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Joined: 21 December 2004
Location: United States
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Posted: 27 May 2018 at 5:09pm | IP Logged | 4 post reply

I find it really interesting that Ireland first legalized gay marriage, three years before they legalized abortion, and both in landslide referendums.
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Rebecca Jansen
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Joined: 12 February 2018
Location: Canada
Posts: 4496
Posted: 27 May 2018 at 5:16pm | IP Logged | 5 post reply

Wisdom is knowing something as to what you don't or can't know about something. Men without medical training need to know there is a lot they don't know where abortions (or terminations) are concerned. The people who should make such decisions are not strangers but the people directly in volved as to the degree they are involved. This includes their right to make a decision I might not agree with. It's funny how some who make the biggest noises about freedom will go to such extremes to not allow someone to make serious decisions that effect them the most.

The freedom is tempered with some basic restrictions but also some important possible exemptions too. I have no idea why so many U.S. states at this time want to go to the other direction of banning and forbidding etc. :^( Ireland finally had a poster woman who died after being forced into giving birth, but there have been so many other who died or were injured going through whatever they could get where they knew that was the best decision open to them.

Running the lives of strangers... you'd think people would really want less of that. I'm glad to see the people of the Republic of Ireland are now empowered and free of family planning and guidance of (at least supposedly and church invented) celibate 'fathers' based on translations of translations of disparate writings from simpler times collected as a (supposedly Holy) Bible.
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Eric Sofer
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Joined: 31 January 2014
Location: United States
Posts: 4789
Posted: 28 May 2018 at 11:12am | IP Logged | 6 post reply

Ms. Jansen, your points are made perfectly. The only matter I would discuss is that of running the lives of strangers. I would HOPE that people wouldn't want to control others' lives... but it has always been the opposite. 

It's about power, purely and simply. It is an addictive drug, and from the first time that Gruk told Ig and Thad that it's Gruk's cave, and what Gruk says goes, and Ig and Thag agreed - but Lur wanted what Gruk was doing - someone has wanted to be in charge, and someone else has wanted that power.

The "Word of God" enabled this a lot, and this included giving the right to control people as based on a higher unverifiable-but-unarguable entitlement. "You cannot love this person", "you cannot know this", "you must pay me this", "you must hunt for me", etc. have led from this. Governments that are not based on the will of the people have relied on this for centuries.

It would seem that Ireland has taken a large step forward with this referendum. I think this is a positive trend, and we should welcome it. Obviously, the matter is not as black and white as "it's bad for one person to tell another what to do" - raising children, for instance - but we're maturing. Slowly and surely...
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Paul Kimball
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Joined: 21 September 2006
Location: United States
Posts: 2163
Posted: 28 May 2018 at 11:43am | IP Logged | 7 post reply

so should men have an opt out?
+++++++++++++
Imo no since there is no opt out for women, i.e. they still have to put
themselves at risk via an invasive surgery even if they do choose abortion.

Plus when would this opt out come?
I could see a man choosing the opt out 6 or 7 months into a pregnancy or even
after the child is born. That doesn't seem fair.

What about situations where a women is taken advantage of, i.e. no one but
the two of them would know but let's say you get someone drunk, then the
next morning you opt out forcing that person to go through a surgery?
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Paul Kimball
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Joined: 21 September 2006
Location: United States
Posts: 2163
Posted: 28 May 2018 at 11:46am | IP Logged | 8 post reply


A woman can opt out of being a mother, but the father
can't opt out of being a father.

+++++++++++
I'm just thinking out loud but here's an idea....
if the man chooses the opt out and hence forces a woman to choose to have
an abortion(surgery) then the man should be required to have a vasectomy, i.e.
surgery for a surgery.
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