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Mike Norris
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
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| Posted: 12 June 2018 at 7:59pm | IP Logged | 1
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Kind of like Golden-age Green Lantern vs. Silver-Age Green Lantern (one ended and the other begins). ************************************************************ ************************\ There was about a decade between the two events.
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
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| Posted: 12 June 2018 at 8:00pm | IP Logged | 2
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Just throwing a radical idea out there, I am thinking some might think it is not great. When the Spider-Man Clone Saga in the 1990s was in full swing, I thought it would have been interesting if Peter Parker died (for real) and Ben Reilly took over as the real Spider-Man. Kind of like Golden-age Green Lantern vs. Silver-Age Green Lantern (one ended and the other begins). I was OK with Wolverine dying and replaced with X-23. Wolverine had 4 decades of stories, which is a lot (just don't bring him back.) ••• If you think 4 decades of stories is a lot, it's a cue for you to stop reading, not a cue to change the character(s).
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Robbie Parry
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 17 June 2007
Location: United Kingdom
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| Posted: 13 June 2018 at 5:55am | IP Logged | 3
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Thinking about the illusion of change, I like older stories where it appears someone has taken on the mantle of a hero, e.g. one of those classic covers where the character throws away his costume or someone else becomes Superman or whatever.
All reset by the end of the tale, of course!
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Andrew Bitner
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 01 June 2004
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| Posted: 13 June 2018 at 6:40am | IP Logged | 4
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Many "legacy" stories end up being about why the original, be it Bruce Wayne, Steve Rogers, or Peter Parker, is the best.
When Batman's back was broken, Jean-Paul Valley (Azrael) was the murderous AzBat--a nod to something many fans said they wanted. DC showed them why that was a real bad idea. Jim Gordon as RoboBat likewise. Dick Grayson has stepped up to be Batman, and he was actually pretty good, with an interesting rapport with the new Robin--but it wasn't going to last.
Steve Rogers was replaced by more than one guy, but one of the better known is probably John Walker (aka USAgent). He was also a meaner and more violent version of Cap, again showing why Rogers IS Captain America. (Sorry if you're a fan of FalCap or BuckyCap.)
And Peter Parker... well, I like Miles, but he won't replace Peter as my favorite Spider-Man. He's a good character, spinning off from Peter's legacy, but he ain't THE Spider-Man.
Long winded way of saying, some legacy characters exist only to show why the one who wore those colors first wore them best.
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
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| Posted: 13 June 2018 at 6:53am | IP Logged | 5
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When Batman's back was broken, Jean-Paul Valley (Azrael) was the murderous AzBat--a nod to something many fans said they wanted. DC showed them why that was a real bad idea. Jim Gordon as RoboBat likewise. Dick Grayson has stepped up to be Batman, and he was actually pretty good, with an interesting rapport with the new Robin--but it wasn't going to last.••• When Bruce Jr stepped into the role in GENERATIONS, I deliberately turned him into an unlikable character -- and got quite a few complaints from readers who did not like the "nastier" take on Batman. I was, of course, merely reflecting what was going on in the comics at the equivalent time. My little ploy to underscore that the originals are usually better.
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Robbie Parry
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 17 June 2007
Location: United Kingdom
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| Posted: 13 June 2018 at 7:14am | IP Logged | 6
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Andrew Bitner wrote:
| Long winded way of saying, some legacy characters exist only to show why the one who wore those colors first wore them best. |
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A valid point, Mr Bitner!
For me, whilst I agree with that, the problem right now that I have is the fact that many, many decades ago, such a story might have been told over two issues. Or one. Then, around the 90s, we're talking a year or more. Nowadays, it's the same.
Same with anything, really: if "Secret Empire" had been published in the 70s, maybe it'd have been a four-part epic, not whatever it was now (over a year and with many tie-in issues).
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Tom French
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 07 January 2005
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| Posted: 13 June 2018 at 11:54am | IP Logged | 7
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Making sure I have this right:
The RED Hulk is the Rage Hulk... The ORANGE Hulk is the Greedy Hulk... The YELLOW Hulk is the Fear Hulk The GREEN Hulk is the Hulk with Will (is Will an emotion?) The BLUE Hulk is the Hopeful Hulk The INDIGO Hulk is the Compassionate Hulk The VIOLET Hulk is the Love Hulk
They all banded together to battle the BLACK Hulk, but were saved by the WHITE Hulk, right...?
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
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| Posted: 13 June 2018 at 1:23pm | IP Logged | 8
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And the plaid Hulk, who is the accountant for the others.
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Andrew Bitner
Byrne Robotics Member
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| Posted: 13 June 2018 at 1:41pm | IP Logged | 9
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God save us from the wrath of the tie-dye Hulk...
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Andrew Bitner
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| Posted: 13 June 2018 at 1:42pm | IP Logged | 10
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And I liked the subtle nod to the "grim and gritty" direction Batman had taken at the time, JB. It's fun to get the subtext in stories like this one. :)
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Andrew Bitner
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| Posted: 13 June 2018 at 1:51pm | IP Logged | 11
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Robbie, you're right--a story like Secret Empire would have been a two-fer at most, not a year-long slog that drags Steve Rogers through the mud.
I would be quite happy if some writers wanted to go back to done in one, two or three issues. We have plenty of examples of stories with GIGANTIC impact that were not 12-issues-with-spinoffs. "Days of Future Past" was two issues, albeit with a bit of set up beforehand. "The Galactus Saga" was... two issues? Maybe three?
You can tell the tale of somebody else trying to be the book's central hero but once you get to the point, maybe it's best to get off it and on to the next story.
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Tom French
Byrne Robotics Member
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| Posted: 13 June 2018 at 2:26pm | IP Logged | 12
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So... the PINK Hulk is the gay one, or in honor of the month, RAINBOW Hulk?
Edited by Tom French on 13 June 2018 at 2:26pm
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