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Andrew Bitner
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 01 June 2004
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| Posted: 14 June 2018 at 7:05am | IP Logged | 1
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The thing about "pre-unique" characters is that they are still spinoffs of the original. There wouldn't have been a "first Hulk" if there hadn't been a Hulk. Ditto Batman, et al. It's another form of de-uniquing, to say "oh hey, I wasn't exactly the *first* to be Captain So-and-So..."
First example I can think of is introducing Black Adam as the "first Captain Marvel"--any others predate that one?
And Robbie? I agree about the whole "writing for the trade" mentality forcing writers into doing arcs instead of one-two-three part stories. The industry has leaned into that model, though, knowing they can make more money over a longer period of time with trades than with monthlies.
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Robbie Parry
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Joined: 17 June 2007
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| Posted: 14 June 2018 at 7:10am | IP Logged | 2
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Yes, you're right. It does make me smile at times. I mean, "We can build the world's first bionic man - but, hang on, we did create one before that." Or, "We've put so much effort into building KITT, but there was this KARR prior to that..."
It can be fun in some respects.
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Andrew Bitner
Byrne Robotics Member
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| Posted: 14 June 2018 at 7:12am | IP Logged | 3
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It can be. It goes the route of several Marvel movies, pitting the hero against his "evil twin." Thing is, though, wouldn't the LATER version be more powerful? Why would the earlier prototype be able to beat the more advanced production model? ;)
(BTW, I know that "the SEVEN Million Dollar Man" didn't precede Steve Austin, though I think KARR came after KITT.)
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Robbie Parry
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| Posted: 14 June 2018 at 8:27am | IP Logged | 4
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I can't recall the exact details, but if I were to guess, KARR was developed and locked away as they hadn't programmed "compassion" into him.
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
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| Posted: 14 June 2018 at 8:30am | IP Logged | 5
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The concept of parallel universes -- which leads immediately to contemplation of "alternate realities" -- is a valid scientific theory that predates its appearance in comics. In an infinite multiverse, we've all been de-uniqued an infinite number of times.
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Robbie Parry
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| Posted: 14 June 2018 at 8:44am | IP Logged | 6
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John Byrne wrote:
| In an infinite multiverse, we've all been de-uniqued an infinite number of times. |
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So there is a you on another earth who had a 5 or 6 year tenure writing and drawing TRANSFORMERS? ;-)
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Andrew Bitner
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| Posted: 14 June 2018 at 8:47am | IP Logged | 7
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Truly more than meets the eye. ;)
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Rebecca Jansen
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 12 February 2018
Location: Canada
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| Posted: 14 June 2018 at 10:33am | IP Logged | 8
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I'm new to the concept terms so I was definitely getting it all wrong. I'm still pretty muddled up, but that's kind of like the comics themselves.
Iron Fist had a rival before him who thought he should have the 'iron fist' power but was in too big a hurry and blew it. Looked very similar and went off in exile to our world while Danny Rand was starting out, or something like that. He went on to steal the 'iron fist' power but still couldn't handle it and it destroyed him.
The old Fawcetts had a bunch of Lieutenant Marvels and an Uncle Marvel as well as the Family and Hoppy, which inspired all the Super this than and the other things with Superman (miniature Superman Emergency Rescue Squad from bottle city Kandor anyone?)... and all the Bat this and that... Ace The Bathound maybe being the Beppo The Super Monkey of that whole scene. DC had all the so-and-so as a boy or girl or baby stuff too. And what about all the Green Lanterns, but that was cool, they even had a Squirrel Green Lantern just before Rocket Racoon I think.
The first super-heroine was a knock-off a male hero... Bulletgirl (Fawcett again), just a little before Wonder Woman. This is the kind of trivia where people look at you like you have gone entirely insane however. The first alternate world story I know of was the modern Flash reading an old comic book about the '40s Flash. I'll try to keep following the concept, but I'm probably still not getting it am I? :^(
Edited by Rebecca Jansen on 14 June 2018 at 10:34am
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Peter Martin
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| Posted: 14 June 2018 at 11:44am | IP Logged | 9
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Rebecca, de-uniquing is really what the term suggests: taking a character that has unique attributes and then replicating them in a specific and transparent manner in another character so as to render the original no longer unique.
An example is Superman. He is the last survivor of Krypton and wears a specific uniform. When we introduce Supergirl, Superman is no longer the last survivor of Krypton. She also wears a derivation of his uniform and her name is also a derivation. Superman is no longer unique.
I say specific and transparent, to clarify that replication of general characteristics is not an example of de-uniquing. Tony Stark is a genius inventor and so is Reed Richards, but one is not carbon-copied/derived from the other.
This thread has introduced another term/concept, 'pre-uniquing', of a character clearly derived from another so as to render the original no longer unique, but with the added twist that (in terms of story continuity) the copy came first.
So She-Hulk de-uniques Hulk.
Lore, in Star Trek, pre-uniques Data.
(As I understand it!)
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John Cole
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| Posted: 14 June 2018 at 11:46am | IP Logged | 10
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I Always thought Superman was more of a direct rip-off of John Carter of Mars than anything else.
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Andrew Saxon
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| Posted: 14 June 2018 at 11:58am | IP Logged | 11
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In an infinite multiverse, we've all been de-uniqued an infinite number of times.
As much as I enjoy the idea in fiction, I've always found the idea of an infinite number of near identical universes a bit wasteful. For instance, just before sitting down at my desk now, I made a coffee and had to choose a mug. There were six mugs to pick from on the shelf so presumably there were are five new universes that were created where I chose one of the other mugs (of course, I - this me - could be in one of the branching realities and not on the main limb). Inevitable jokes aside, I just don't see the point of there being six duplicates of me based on my choosing a mug for my coffee (and then there are the universes where I'm drinking tea or maybe had a coke instead, from the can or in a glass). I'm not saying it isn't a valid theory, btw., just that my being thirsty doesn't seem a good enough reason for creating whole new realities containing everything this universe contains except for that one tiny and insignificant detail.
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Robbie Parry
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| Posted: 14 June 2018 at 12:38pm | IP Logged | 12
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Rebecca, I think Peter has explained it very well.
I can take things on their own merits. Evil doppelgangers are great - we all love the Faker in HE-MAN, right? - and I quite enjoy the character of Speedy.
It's all subjective. There may be someone out there who wants EVEN MORE Spider-Man spin-offs; and then there are people like me who think there are too many. I think there should be a limit. I mean, for Pete's sake, they even got a bionic dog into THE SIX MILLION DOLLAR MAN.
De-uniquing also applies, as stated earlier, to gadgets, vehicles, etc. In the TV series AIRWOLF, Airwolf was this billion-dollar helicopter, one of a kind supposedly. Until an evil doppelganger (Redwolf) came along. And, in the fourth season episode "Scorpion", there was another model. Not a unique helicopter, after all.
Sometimes I like a little twist. In THUNDERCATS, Tygra was a cool character. Then we got Bengali, another "tiger-man". Only he was a white tiger with a different personality, abilities and weapons. So I think if de-uniquing is to be a thing, try and at least vary it a little.
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