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Conrad Teves
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Posted: 17 June 2018 at 12:22am | IP Logged | 1 post reply

I had no idea this was even possible, but the guy in the article has "aphantasia" which keeps him from picturing anything in his mind:


As an artist, I (ironically) find this tough to imagine because I imagine it with an image. This (I suppose trained) reflex makes it difficult to imagine things that are not 3D space-oriented. Like the idea of emergent space-time. I picture it as emerging into a pre-existing volume--which is totally wrong. Or on the opposite end, imagining more than three dimensions I (with great futility) try to picture in only three dimensions.

What the brain can imagine seems to vary wildly from person to person. There was that Batman the Animated Series episode where Bruce realizes he's dreaming because he can't read the newspaper. This struck me as odd, because I can read just fine in my dreams.  Signs or labels often figure prominently.

Also, I dream in color.  Anybody else?
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John Byrne
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Posted: 17 June 2018 at 1:27am | IP Logged | 2 post reply

How can we tell this guy can't picture anything in his mind?
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Conrad Teves
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Posted: 17 June 2018 at 2:13am | IP Logged | 3 post reply

I would think the closest you could come was scanning his brain to see what bits were active while he pictured something.  Of course, you couldn't tell what exactly he was picturing, that his visual cortex was less (or very differently) active than normal.

I do know two people who are "face blind," i.e., they are very poor at recognizing faces unless they are in close proximity.  In one case, being in a crowd makes the phenomenon worse.

I also wonder how much of it is trainable, like drawing. Gross generalization, but the more you know to draw, they better you draw.

I used to work in a grocery store, which inevitably was stuck up one night. The manager who had just spent some unnerving time at gun point decided (in an unfortunate fit of helpfulness) to draw a "composite" picture of the robber for the police.  I exaggerate a little, but it ended up looking something like this:

The police officer brought his partner over to look at it, "Hey, Bob's* drawn us a composite picture."  His partner had to turn away to avoid laughing.
I don't bring this up to make fun of him (he got plenty for weeks at the time) but I have often wondered what the heck was in his head that that came out? I mean, his mom doesn't look like that in his head, right? I suspect it's that he had simply never learned to break down the parts of a face into smaller related parts to get a more accurate rendering.

I wonder if any twins study has ever been done where one twin was trained to draw for many years, and one was not?

*Not really his name.
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John Byrne
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Posted: 17 June 2018 at 2:26am | IP Logged | 4 post reply

This reminds me of a case I read about years ago. A woman was suing a public transit company, claiming a fall on one of their buses had caused her to lose her psychic powers. The defense council took the approach of trying to prove psychic powers do not exist. Since most people actually believe they do, this tactic failed, and the woman won a settlement.

My immediate thought was that the lawyers, instead of being rational and practical, should have challenged her to prove her powers were gone. After all, this isn't the kind of thing that shows up on an x-ray!

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Dave Kopperman
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Posted: 17 June 2018 at 9:11am | IP Logged | 5 post reply

I have serious difficulty with abstract thinking and with visual imagining - the former has proven difficult with any math more advanced than algebra, and the latter has proven to be a serious impediment as an artist, although not a fatal one.  It basically just means my sketch process is a bit more protracted, and that I tend to get a weird social anxiety when drawing in public (more with people who know my skills rather than strangers).
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Eric Sofer
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Posted: 17 June 2018 at 10:16am | IP Logged | 6 post reply

I suspect this might be poorly defined, at best. Aphantasia, as I'm reading it, means that he cannot picture anything in his mind at all.

Then how does he speak? Not just verbalize words, but how does he know what he's talking about? When we start to talk, we apply words to images that we know. Babies start out unable to speak, but able to realize images (or sounds, but I think that's far less pertinent.) We see an image that's moving, very familiar, and has some aspects we recognize. Then we identify those aspects as a nose, eyes, arms, height and build... then we recognize that's Daddy and Mommy. Then we apply a word to it.

But if we didn't have an image for it... how would we know what we were referring to? For example, I wonder how he could talk about a tree if there weren't one in his sight line? When I write "tree", every one of you has some image that comes up in your mind. I'm quite certain that not one of you has a mental sense of "wood, about a foot in circumference, hard bark, leaves, branches", etc. You envision a larch.

This guy doesn't. Oh, maybe he has adapted so that the words DO come to his mind to know that word. But what about a scene? If I tell you that a happy little girl with a red balloon walked down the street with an ice cream cone, on a sunny day, an image comes to your mind. Are those just words with no reference at all?

Yes, there are non-visual concepts, of course, but even then, I suspect that we have a visual image of words like law, hope, photosynthesis, etc.

That's how we learn foreign languages (or at least how I did.) In Spanish, I learned arroz means rice in English - but I knew what I meant when I referred to it because that's what I see in my mind.

Certainly, everything I've posited here could be exactly the case, which is what makes this a terrible condition - but it doesn't indicate that this person is unable to function in society, and I suspect that might be the case for such a condition.

On the other hand, maybe it just means he REALLY doesn't like that Disney movie.
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Neil Lindholm
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Posted: 17 June 2018 at 5:00pm | IP Logged | 7 post reply

When I was in the Army, one of the guys in my Basic Training told us that he had failed the spacial awareness test they had given us when we had all joined up. It was pictures of exploded cubes and 3D objects that you had to put together mentally. Didn't think much about it until the time came to learn how to assemble and disassemble our C7 rifles. He was completely useless at it. He could not figure out what part goes where or how they interacted with each other. No matter how hard he tried, he could never take his rifle apart and put it back together properly. I also wondered what was going on in his brain.
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Rebecca Jansen
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Posted: 18 June 2018 at 12:27pm | IP Logged | 8 post reply

Aside from the absurdity of trying to definitively prove an absence of this, it is a real thing and a muscle you can develop... one which the best comic artists are bound to have.That's where the real work is done, not the hand or pencil, you start to see things in three-dimension and in certain amounts of detail based on all your observations of the world around you. I struggled with a weak muscle (failed a basic drafting course pretty spectacularly) until a fellow Canadian artist whose three-dimensional figures and perspective blew my mind (along the lines John Byrne's do) started sharing with me all his really early, and frankly not so good, drawings up to where he started really 'getting it'. Up until then I thought he and many other artists I admired were born geniuses, regular M.C. Eschers, you know? No hope for me. I am so lucky I got to spend a little time with Mr. Dick Giordano (once with his wife here) and he helped me a lot along with some things Gil Kane said in some interviews too. Practice along the right lines and, Mr. Giordano said, almost anyone who wants to, can. Obviously there are real disabilities with real limitations (Mr. Giordano did a lot of work with the Special Olympics, I have so much admiration for him and it chokes me up thinking about how happy he was talking about that work), and so I suppose this guy who says he can't picture things in his mind may indeed be handicapped that way. Dyslexia of a sort perhaps.

Interesting about the Army test; I'm sure I would have failed it at one time. I still struggle with some things to do with cutting something at the right angle to fit with something else three-dimensionally, getting it totally bloody wrong and my Dad having to redo something like the trim at the bottom of a bathroom wall. I wonder if it's a common female brain handicap as they say men and women process directions differently; men tend to like maps and women navigate by landmarks and familiar routes over the most direct. :^(


Edited by Rebecca Jansen on 18 June 2018 at 12:30pm
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