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Robbie Parry Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 17 June 2007 Location: United Kingdom Posts: 12186
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Posted: 17 June 2018 at 2:58pm | IP Logged | 1
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As a people person, I do like human contact (I drive a taxi!). I like it in the supermarket; I like it at the petrol station; I like it if visiting a bank. Maybe part of that is due to living alone. Whilst I visit friends and family, and they visit me, sometimes the four walls here are all I have for company.
We seem to be moving towards automation faster than possible. My own role may one day disappear when driverless cars take to the roads. It just seems to have picked up the pace. Supermarkets and various stores here really seem to be getting rid of staff. There are fewer people serving you and more machines (which inevitably encounter problems, anyway, e.g. "refusing" to scan certain items).
It really dawned on me earlier. I had a documentary on as "background noise" whilst doing some accounts. I don't know what the documentary was called, but a B&B in Brighton was featured. The owner of the B&B has a "self check-in service" (how would that work?), and paying for breakfast equates to having the tray, collecting foods/condiments and making it yourself.
Is it a sign of the apocalypse when a B&B - surely one of the most people-centric businesses - is moving towards automation and a less personal service?!!
When I visit a B&B, I want to be greeted by the owner; I want him or her to ask how my journey was, and then offer to carry my bags (I want the offer, by the way, I always, without exception, politely decline and carry my own bags); I want a bit of small talk and the like as I sign for my keys and pay my room bill. Is it too much to ask, folks?
Same with breakfast. I have no particular issue with putting jam on toast and pouring orange juice into a glass. But when I've paid for a room, maybe, just maybe, I want the owner to serve me, chat with me briefly, recommend a good bar to me, ask me what it's like back home.
Please understand, this isn't about getting my bags carried (like I stated, I do that) or having orange juice poured into a glass (I can do that in a nanosecond). What I want is HUMAN CONTACT. What a cold, soulless and clinical world it will be if everywhere from supermarkets and petrol stations to B&Bs impose less human contact on us. I don't want to live in that world.
Any thoughts?
Edited by Robbie Parry on 17 June 2018 at 3:00pm
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Rebecca Jansen Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 12 February 2018 Location: Canada Posts: 4499
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Posted: 17 June 2018 at 3:30pm | IP Logged | 2
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Self-serve isn't an entirely new phenomenon Robbie, there were restaurants in America called Automats way back where you put coins in slots to open glass doors and poured your own beverage. I think the last one going was in New York City, you can see it an '80s movie titled Metropolitan.
With the smart phones now society is at a new level of well, autism, and I don't mean to use that term as any kind of negative against the autistic. Also it used to be someone walking down the street having a loud conversation with themself was someone with mental health issues, now it's usually that bluetooth headset stuff. It gets weird when people are having loud conversations in various foreign languages, I can imagine the paranoids reacting something like people hearing Japanese fishermen talking over the radio in the early '40s did! Pedestrians that don't make eye contact can learn a serious lesson.
I like a bit of both, being alone is cool, being around a lot of people is cool, too much of one or the other can be too much though. Some people are very easy to be around also and some are oddly very difficult and you feel some need to entertain them I suppose. I definitely come from a time when people said hello even though strangers, and help people who trip rather than laugh at them or take a video. I hate self check-outs and bank machines and I first used a computer in 1982, and logged onto the internet such as it was in 1983.
People enthusiastic for driverless cars and drone deliveries haven't read enough dystopian science fiction about what can go wrong and the many ripple effects possible!
Edited by Rebecca Jansen on 17 June 2018 at 3:32pm
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Tim Cousar Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 12 May 2006 Location: United States Posts: 1662
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Posted: 17 June 2018 at 4:09pm | IP Logged | 3
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My wife and granddaughter went to McDonald's for lunch on Friday and ordered from the kiosk. What they received still was not what they'd ordered.
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Robbie Parry Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 17 June 2007 Location: United Kingdom Posts: 12186
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Posted: 17 June 2018 at 4:14pm | IP Logged | 4
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Not entirely sure where you're going with that, Tim. Help me out, please. ;-)
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Doug Centers Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 17 February 2014 Location: United States Posts: 5458
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Posted: 17 June 2018 at 4:39pm | IP Logged | 5
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Whenever I hear of another automated "innovation" I feel we're one tick closer to those humans from Wall-E.
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Steve De Young Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 01 April 2008 Location: United States Posts: 3488
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Posted: 17 June 2018 at 5:00pm | IP Logged | 6
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Long term, this is going to cause an economic crisis. With most production being automated, and service industries now becoming automated, what are the jobs of the future going to be? And I’m not talking about kinds of jobs. I’m talking about quantity. Sure, somebody has to repair the kiosk. But there isn’t as much work in kiosk repair as there was work replaced by the kiosk.
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Robbie Parry Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 17 June 2007 Location: United Kingdom Posts: 12186
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Posted: 17 June 2018 at 5:07pm | IP Logged | 7
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That's true, Steve.
I mean, again, taxi driving as an example. There are ancillary jobs pertaining to taxi driving, e.g. those who worked in the licensing department of the council, those who tested my route knowledge, those who handled the paperwork and my badge, etc. What happens to them?
What of mechanics? Sure, they'll still be around to fix and maintain taxis, but then what happens if mechanics' jobs all become automated?
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Bill Collins Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 26 May 2005 Location: England Posts: 11247
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Posted: 18 June 2018 at 6:58am | IP Logged | 8
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I think there`s a balance regarding self checkout tills, i see many customers shopping with their phone to their ear, they obviously don`t want `real` human contact, and it is very rude when being served by a human checkout operator. SCOT tills are fine for those people, and people who only want a couple of items, and don`t want to queue behind someone doing a big weekly shop. My cousin runs a B&B and they give great personal service, supplying packed lunches, local info etc if people want a less personal approach, why not stay in a chain hotel? Regarding driverless cars, i just can`t see the point! Taxi drivers in particular are a font of information if you are a stranger in a particular place.
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John Bodin Byrne Robotics Member
Purveyor of Rare Items
Joined: 16 April 2004 Location: United States Posts: 3911
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Posted: 18 June 2018 at 7:29am | IP Logged | 9
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Tim Cousar wrote:
My wife and granddaughter went to McDonald's for lunch on Friday and ordered from the kiosk. What they received still was not what they'd ordered. |
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My reply to this isn't really relevant to the topic, but this post caught my eye -- I wonder if this kind of order screw-up isn't going to become somewhat commonplace for "kiosk" orders at fast food restaurants, as a means of the kitchen staff showing "solidarity" with the cashiers and front-line workers who would inevitably be replaced if the kiosks became the standard?
Kind of a subtle form of labor organization sans unions . . . could be interesting to observe the success and acceptance rate of these kind of kiosks to see if these type of "failures" become more commonplace as more and more jobs become threatened by automation.
Very interesting to me as an automation engineer.
[Edited for clarity]
Edited by John Bodin on 18 June 2018 at 7:31am
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Rebecca Jansen Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 12 February 2018 Location: Canada Posts: 4499
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Posted: 18 June 2018 at 12:02pm | IP Logged | 10
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I don't know if I should say this here about cel and smart phones. I'm not a tin foil hat person at all but the CBC did some tests on them to measure magnetic radiation and they exceeded what the makers claimed, plus they were certified as safe for up to x many hours per day and that was for an adult... many people exceed that many hours next to their ear/brain/skull every single day.
You may want to know too that the makers have you supposedly holding the devices an inch or more from your head, not pressed up to it. I almost never use these things and I was alarmed. i think it was on a segemnt the CBC calls 'Marketplace', but may've been on the Fifth Estate, a 60 Minutes type of program. Also the things boost their transmitting power the fewer bars you get on them, so rural people are getting exposed to higher amounts.
The other thing this thread made me think of was the old folk songs about John Henry who died with a hammer in his hand. There was a new steam-driven rail spike driver and he competed against it to show humans are not obsolete, and beat it but died from the effort right after (like some marathon runners do).
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Bill Collins Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 26 May 2005 Location: England Posts: 11247
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Posted: 18 June 2018 at 2:41pm | IP Logged | 11
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Strange, but about the only thing I don't use my smart phone for, is making calls!
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Eric Sofer Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 31 January 2014 Location: United States Posts: 4789
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Posted: 18 June 2018 at 4:45pm | IP Logged | 12
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Robbie, I think that Tim C. meant that there are still a few bugs in the system on our route to automatic solitude.
There have been quite a few novels (and likely non-fiction books) regarding the aspect of solitude in an automated world. I see two aspects to it.
First, an upcoming generation that is born into automated appliances, systems, and services. They have no reason to want to put forth any excessive effort on their own part, and likely they couldn't understand why anybody would want to work.* This is likely an unwitting but irreversible trend toward solitude, interrupted only by televised contact and holograms. Who knows? If it's all they know, then people of that generation might be horrified and disgusted by human contact. (Ref. Isaac Asimov's "The Naked Sun" - about ANOTHER possible upcoming human phobia as well!
*We may have already seen aspects of this with "the hired help" - immigrants who have worked in so-called menial jobs. "There's no need to make dinner, George, when Mrs. Baker can get it."
Second, we are approaching a time when travel and interaction is inconvenient and inefficient. A large part of human interaction has been out of necessity... you work with other people, you celebrate with other people, you dine with other people... prior to a lot of man-made entertainment, human company was the ONLY way to do 'most anything.
Television, movies, and the internet may have writ done to a lot of this. I am not aware of the figures of church attendance - whether for services or for associated activities. I'm ignorant, too, of school attendances, in the modern era. But I'll bet a silk pajama that they're are both less popular than they once were because people are not desperate for entertainment and distraction anymore... and human interaction is a result of those original events, as well as a cause.
When I was laid off, I was simply alone at home all day long (save for interviews and such... rare enough in my search.) My human interaction was my wife, occasionally my family and friends (those were pretty rare), and my posts and replies here on the board. And I have not the least idea how any of you look or sound... save for Mr. Byrne, of course. Even then, he's kinda hard to get details past the glowing aura, and I'm told his voice is deific and thundering. :)
If other social engagements - dining, entertainment, education, and even military and sports occurrences - continue to wane in popularity, we may be headed straight on for a life of solitary ignorance. I doubt it can happen soon or last long... but I wouldn't be surprised if it ran a few decades.
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