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Charles Nelson
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 25 June 2012
Location: United States
Posts: 245
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| Posted: 15 September 2018 at 2:57pm | IP Logged | 1
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The right arm and hand are the only parts that still really look like JB, once you know they are his pencils. Like many of you, it was years before I knew this was JB and I bought it new. The "re-working" of the face was inscrutable, to me.
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Rebecca Jansen
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 12 February 2018
Location: Canada
Posts: 4499
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| Posted: 16 September 2018 at 11:03am | IP Logged | 2
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I like Tom Palmer's inking but I'd have liked to have seen him adding what he is best at without subtracting from the pencils in any way. Here he has subtracted and what he's put in in it's place (head, torso, background) is not as good and not John Byrne... he has added legitimately to the asteroid/rock and some grey tone shading which enhances, but overall you see loss a bit more than gain. Usually these excessive changes are at editorial command but I don't know here... I don't see the purpose at all. :^(
Luckily we still have both, and I've also seen the first page inside in pencil and some other bits which some fanzine printed.
Would they 'correct' Moebius on Silver Surfer like this? If you want John Byrne's Silver Surfer inked by Tom Palmer, you want John Byrne there as fully as possible, not Byrne 'corrected' like that one Iron Fist with the new X-Men... that was just a weird thing to see.
Edited by Rebecca Jansen on 16 September 2018 at 11:06am
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Nathan Greno
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 20 April 2006
Location: United States
Posts: 9154
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| Posted: 17 September 2018 at 8:43am | IP Logged | 3
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Brian Miller: This is the comic that really made me not like Palmer’s inks over JB pencils. Don’t like them here and don’t like them on XMHY
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Fully agree
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Matt Hawes
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 16428
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| Posted: 17 September 2018 at 10:04am | IP Logged | 4
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I respect Tom Palmer's art, and the team of John Buscema and Palmer was one if the greats, but I don't feel Palmer's inks suit JB's work. There is a clash in styles. I get why JB wanted Palmer's inks on X-MEN: THE HIDDEN YEARS, the series being an extension of the Neal Adams and Tom Palmer issues. Still, while Palmer's art is undoubtedly skilled and awesome in its own right, for me the mix with JB's pencils don't work. I don't want diluted JB art.
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Peter Martin
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 17 March 2008
Location: Canada
Posts: 15783
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| Posted: 17 September 2018 at 10:26am | IP Logged | 5
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Yeah, I feel a similar way to Matt. I used to very much enjoy Palmer's inks over John Buscema in the Avengers and I felt the faces of the characters retained that Buscema look, but for some reason Palmer's inks overpower JB's pencils. First time I saw the pairing was in Starbrand and I could barely recognise JB's style under Palmer's inks.
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Brian Miller
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 28 July 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 30888
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| Posted: 17 September 2018 at 12:20pm | IP Logged | 6
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Oh yeah. I forgot about STARBRAND. Don’t like them there, either.
That said, I fully agree with Matt H. I love Palmer over Buscema and Adams.
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Nathan Greno
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 20 April 2006
Location: United States
Posts: 9154
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| Posted: 17 September 2018 at 2:39pm | IP Logged | 7
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Thought it would be fun to compare/discuss another set of pencils/inks...
(Ignore the "BEFORE" in the corner... it was on the scan I found)
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Rebecca Jansen
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 12 February 2018
Location: Canada
Posts: 4499
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| Posted: 17 September 2018 at 4:02pm | IP Logged | 8
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Full marks to Mr. Austin on the Amazon cover... everything is there and then some, and he's followed the suggestion about lightning as well! The only thing that sometimes I notice with Austin is he uses the same line thicknesses on things that might benefit from being different. Generally you want something on the side away from a light source to be heavier, and closer to be lighter, and same with foreground/background. With lightning as the lighting in the background this isn't going to be an issue on this particular piece though. I understand he started out doing backgrounds with Dick Giordano or somesuch where you would be able to do the Chic Stone fine line uniformly not to detract from the main action in front. Anyway, it's always been something with Terry Austin that could make me a little itchy, the line thicknesses being inappropriate, but this cover is gorgeous all around (and was the first 'Amalgam' title I wanted and got)!
Edited by Rebecca Jansen on 17 September 2018 at 4:04pm
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Brian Miller
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 28 July 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 30888
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| Posted: 17 September 2018 at 4:50pm | IP Logged | 9
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Love it
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Brian Miller
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 28 July 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 30888
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| Posted: 17 September 2018 at 4:51pm | IP Logged | 10
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Now I want to see Terry inks on that Surfer cover!
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Eric Jansen
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 27 October 2013
Location: United States
Posts: 2291
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| Posted: 17 September 2018 at 9:40pm | IP Logged | 11
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Interesting that Rebecca mentions Austin's lack of line variance and the cape--where JB seems to ask for brush "spikes"--is the one place Austin changes things, instead doing single line weight cross lines. To use the same pen thickness, he makes more work for himself.
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Eric Sofer
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 31 January 2014
Location: United States
Posts: 4789
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| Posted: 18 September 2018 at 7:48am | IP Logged | 12
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Good heavens! I loved that art, I loved that book, and it was so well written that I have thought it was going to be part of the regular series!
Shucks, I miss THAT Wonder Woman!
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