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Topic: The Masters of Evil vs the Secret Society of Super Villains Post ReplyPost New Topic
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Eric Sofer
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Posted: 15 September 2018 at 6:13am | IP Logged | 1 post reply

As my friend Robbie posited... which company has better rogues for their heroes, DC or Marvel?

Or to narrow it a bit... if MoE had a book and SSoSV was revived, and you could select the membership of each... which would work better?

Let's go a step further. Come up with a line up for either or both. Limit it to seven members. Who would you like and why? Remember, we need it to be popular enough to sell; take advantage of the most popular villains who could work together.

Or just discuss whose villains are better. I'm leaving this wide open. Now you can have Flash and Batman's rogues galleries to discuss, or Spider-Man's and the Hulk's villains (for example.)

Let's go!
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Robbie Parry
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Posted: 15 September 2018 at 8:11am | IP Logged | 2 post reply

Don't really feel qualified to discuss either the Masters of Evil or Secret Society of Super-Villains, Mr Sofer. But it's a good topic.

On villains, I like the Hulk's rogues gallery. 

Backtracking a tad, I believe it's possible for a superhero to have both quality and quantity in a rogues gallery. Batman and Spider-Man have both. You could produce a TV series for both heroes - and you wouldn't even scratch the surface as far as villainy is concerned.

Then there are some which don't seem to have either. In a sense, that is. I like Cheetah (Wonder Woman's enemy), and I guess Ares is a force to be reckoned with, but nothing beyond those two floats my boat. 

And then we come to those which don't necessarily have quantity, but certainly have quality. The Hulk's major foes, I guess, include Abomination, Zzzax, Leader, and Wendigo (I know there are others, but I can't list them all, so please no-one tell me what I've missed, which seems to be happening on Facebook lately). In my view, while the Hulk doesn't have quantity, the few major foes he has are all bloody awesome!
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Eric Sofer
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Posted: 15 September 2018 at 10:05am | IP Logged | 3 post reply

Mr. P, I didn't mean for the groups to be taken too literally. Come up with a group of villains that you think would sell - shucks, that would work well together, selling or not. You don't need to use ANY of the past MoE or SSoSV. If you want Luthor, Solomon Grundy, Bane, Heat Wave, etc. - go for it.

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Robbie Parry
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Posted: 15 September 2018 at 10:16am | IP Logged | 4 post reply

I'll play the game, Sir Eric!

For the SSoSV, I'll pick a rogue from the rogues gallery of several of DC Comics' most popular villains.

So, my SSoSV line-up would be: Lex Luthor, Riddler, Star Sapphire, Rainbow Raider, Black Manta, Gentleman Ghost, and Cheetah.

Why did I choose those? Luthor and Riddler give my incarnation some "star power". The others on the list are perhaps not as well known to 'civilians' or casual comic fans. 

Really, though, I went for a diverse mix of powers and personalities. I think among those seven, the storyline possibilities would be fun as those are seven distinct personalities with seven unique powers/abilities. And I think there could be some good interaction between them. 


Edited by Robbie Parry on 15 September 2018 at 10:17am
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Wallace Sellars
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Posted: 15 September 2018 at 3:01pm | IP Logged | 5 post reply

THE SECRET SOCIETY OF SUPERVILLAINS

Bizarro - I'm thinking of a character with Superman's abilities who is more misguided and troubled than evil, but who has fallen in with the wrong crowd.

Black Manta - Is it wrong of me to want him on the squad just for auditory and visual appeal? That helmet and (Superfriends version) voice - along with his strong mechanical engineering skills - combine to make him strong addition.

Giganta - The Superfriends version of this biiig baddie makes the list for reasons that shall remain known only to myself. *mwuahahahahaaa*

Gorilla Grodd - Who doesn't appreciate a well-drawn super simian with mind control and telekinetic powers? Oh, and did I mention that he's also a scientist?

Professor Zoom - Just imagine if the Flash were a bad guy and you'll very quickly understand why the only DC villain who may be scarier is the next one on my list.

Sinestro - As wielder of what is potentially the most powerful weapon in the universe, this renegade Lantern has long been near the top of my most feared villains list.

Vandal Savage - As an immortal who has taken part in hundreds of battles throughout his lifetime, he brings a wealth of invaluable experience.
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Wallace Sellars
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Posted: 15 September 2018 at 3:09pm | IP Logged | 6 post reply

Really? Two "As..." sentences back to back?! Aaaargh!!!
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Robbie Parry
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Posted: 15 September 2018 at 3:11pm | IP Logged | 7 post reply

It doesn't matter, Wallace. We've all done it. Don't be too hard on yourself, my friend. ;-)

*Makes you a cucumber sandwich*

Enjoy! And relax. :)
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Wallace Sellars
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Posted: 15 September 2018 at 3:27pm | IP Logged | 8 post reply

Ha. Thanks, Robbie.

(By the by... I've never had one of those sandwiches.)
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Robbie Parry
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Posted: 16 September 2018 at 5:56am | IP Logged | 9 post reply

A good sandwich needs a tomato, cucumber and lettuce. White bread. Low-fat butter. 

Regarding the Masters of Evil, here's my line-up:

Doctor Doom (the LEADER!)
Tyrannus
Green Goblin
Toad
Jester
Blizzard

Just trying to have a very diverse bunch. Can't really imagine the likes of Tyrannus wanting to take orders from Doom. Goblin would be a "wild card". Others may be a tad unpredictable. But Doom's ego demands he tries to control them.
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Brian Hague
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Posted: 16 September 2018 at 9:42pm | IP Logged | 10 post reply

So... the Masters were run by two separate Baron Zemos at various  points in their history. The Society was headed by two super-intelligent gorillas. Nazis vs. Gorillas. Advantage: Gorillas, especially if they're using their Force of Mind or Powerstone abilities. 

At another point in their history, the Masters were organized by a figure calling himself the Crimson Cowl, who turned out to be... the Avengers butler, Jarvis, being manipulated by Ultron. The Society never had any evil butlers (the Outsider never answered his phone during their membership drives, apparently) but they did have arrogant, poncy nobody, the Monocle who had a well, laser beam monocle. Advantage: The Monocle, because Jarvis doesn't shoot lasers. He may polish them, but he does not fire them.

The Enchantress and the Executioner have been members of the Masters of Evil. If we pair Amora against the icy-hearted manipulator of men from the Society, Killer Frost, we can have the two of them send their enchanted love-slaves and mesmerized ice-thralls against one another until they run out of men. In the end, the victory will go to Amora because she cannot be defeated by a tiny ice giant. (I thought about putting her up against the Psycho-Pirate, who has a wider range of emotions to control, including Love, but ultimately Roger Hayden will be defeated by her Asgardian magicks, if not by her ability to control emotions. Either way, Amora wins.) Avantage: The Enchantress

The Executioner will fall in battle against Kalibak since Darkseid's son routinely trains against Steppenwulf whose weapon is also an axe and so can deal with such annoyances quite handily. Advantage: Kalibak.

Immortus vs. Darkseid? Advantage: Darkseid. Immortus has a wide range of time tricks he can employ against the Ruler of Apokolips, but at the end of the day, he's an historian and a dispassionate observer of events. Darkseid means business and does not engage unless he means to win. He has no liking for or tolerance of theoreticians or academicians. He plays a long game as well as Immortus does, but when the time comes to end the match, he is a closer and Immortus doesn't have the stuff for it anymore. Maybe when he was Kang, he'd have fought a little harder, but as Immortus? No. For all the resources at his command, he goes down in straight sets to the man with the plan and the ruthless will to carry it out.

The Radioactive Man vs. Sinestro? Advantage: Sinestro. Bright green glowing guys do not impress Sinestro. Klaw vs. the Rag Doll? The Rag Doll could wrap himself around Klaw's sonic blaster, effectively muffling it entirely and then club the guy over the head with his feet, thereby... Okay, no. Advantage: Klaw. C'mon, who did the Rag Doll think he was kidding anyway? Whirlwind vs. the Mist? Um, Advantage: Whirlwind. He just blows the competition away. I only hope the Mist can pull himself back together again afterwards. 

The Beetle vs. Mantis? Advantage: Mantis. Moonstone vs. the Star Sapphire? Advantage: Star Sapphire. Because this one was French and is therefore just plain mean to blonde Americans. She will out-insult, out-fashion, and just plain out-match the hapless Moonstone. And if Moonstone gets in a lucky punch somehow, the Star Sapphire will sic a Zamaron army upon her. Pow! Star beats Moon. 

Here's a good match: Hawkeye vs. the Paul Kirk Manhunter. Well, okay, technically just A Paul Kirk Manhunter, one of several. But as the good guy in amongst the bad guys, trying to tip their power towards good, both played a role at one time or another in the history of these two teams. Who wins in a knock-down-drag-out between the heroes? I want to give it to Manhunter who can match the Batman in a fight, but Hawkeye's trained with Captain America and routinely punches way above his weight class... I'm going to say Advantage: Hawkeye. 

What does that give us so far...? Masters: 4; Secret Society: 8 I suppose we could keep going. Screaming Mimi vs. Brainwave? Advantage: Brainwave. Mimi is just annoying. Brainwave is a master level villain and telepath. Who else does the Masters have in waiting? The Melter, Black Knight, Fixer, Goliath... The team from the "Under Siege" story has significant hitting power (Mr. Hyde, the Wrecking Crew, Tiger Shark, Titania, the Absorbing Man, et al) but the SSOSV still has Black Adam, Bizarro, Blockbuster, Matter Master, Felix Faust, and the Reverse-Flash warming up in the bullpen. Most of those could conceivably take out a few over-powered brutes and lunkheads.

While the Masters undeniably beat the Avengers in "Under Siege," the SSOSV defeated a large portion of the JLA and JSA in JLA #195-197, making both teams nothing to sneeze at.

Ultimately, however, this is just a Marvel vs. DC competition and the Marvelites will always vote Marvel and the DC fans will vote DC. I'm a DC guy, so I'll vote with my team, but an actual all-out blow-out between these two organizations and their various iterations would make for an interesting contest. Even if the final results came out 50/50 by editorial fiat, it would still have been a fun series of issues.

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Brian Hague
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Posted: 16 September 2018 at 10:28pm | IP Logged | 11 post reply

I went with the teams as they existed previously and did not try to compile "new" versions to go up against one another. At one point in writing this, I did try to do so by having DC heroes approximate the make-up of a given Masters of Evil team and Marvel ones fill in as members of a Secret Society line-up.

Ultimately, I gave it up because there are just so many members to choose from on both sides, but just for fun, here were two of the teams I came up with...

THE MASTERS SOCIETY OF SECRECY...

Baron Blitzkrieg (for Zemo)
Lady Lunar (for Moonstone)
Giganta (for Goliath)
Sivana (for the Fixer)
Black Manta (for the Beetle)
Professor Zoom (for Speed Demon)
The Kryptonite Kid (for the Radioactive Man)

THE SECRET MASTERS OF SOCIETAL EVIL...

The Shadow King (for the Ultra-Humanite)
Glazier (for Killer Frost)
Madcap (for Rag Doll)
Mastermind (for the Monocle)
The original Groot, Monster from Planet X (for the Floronic Man)
Modok (for Brainwave)
Vapor (for the Mist)

In a match-up between these two, yes, I know the Marvel team would out-power the DC one, but I was matching teams of different eras and memberships here, going for arguably the most popular, with the JLA #195 SSOSV and the Thunderbolts. Had I done a DC version of the "Under Siege" Masters of Evil, the results would be probably be different. 


Edited by Brian Hague on 16 September 2018 at 10:32pm
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Eric Sofer
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Posted: 17 September 2018 at 7:09am | IP Logged | 12 post reply

Brian H., those are great teams.

Please be aware that, in addition to the MoE and SSoSV that were in the comics, I was also inviting discussion of the Marvel Rogues vs. the DC Rogues. We had the discussion between Batman and Spider-Man,,, I just thought I'd expand it a little, in addition to the discussions we've had.

By the way, Brian, I seem to recall that the SSoSV had a butler who was spying on them for Darkseid... but it's been a LONG time since I last read those books.
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