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Rebecca Jansen
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Posted: 13 October 2018 at 2:42pm | IP Logged | 1 post reply

"It feels to me so strange beyond anything I can think, to be able to believe in any of the known religions. Yet how beautiful if you could. Fancy feeling yourself saved, as they say - set apart to have a great reward."

- Victorian illustrator Kate Greenaway
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John Byrne
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Posted: 13 October 2018 at 3:43pm | IP Logged | 2 post reply

I know we've been down this road before, and there are people (such as Ken Ham) who will always justify something, but the Genesis 1/Genesis 2 contradictions make no sense to me. Was Adam lonely and in need of animals? Or did he and Eve come last, the pinnacle of God's creation?

•••

There was no reason for Adam to be lonely in Genesis I, since the God reated adam, the Hebrew word for Mankind.

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Robbie Parry
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Posted: 13 October 2018 at 4:17pm | IP Logged | 3 post reply

Speaking of mankind, I was always baffled by Cain's wife. Who was she?

Adam and Eve had several kids, sure, but it didn't sound like they had a large number. So after Cain killed Abel, who became his wife? And who were the people he had to keep away from by "wearing" the Mark of Cain?
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Eric Jansen
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Posted: 13 October 2018 at 4:20pm | IP Logged | 4 post reply

How did the Chinese miss the Flood?
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All the great cultures of the ancient remember a Flood, usually with the same themes: The Deity sends it, a righteous man (usually with his family) is saved from it, through building a boat/ark, and then must rebuild/replenish the land.

Besides Noah in the Bible, there's Nu'u in Hawaii, Gilgamesh in Mesopotamia, Manu in Hinduism, Deucalion in Greek myth, Bergelmir in Norse myth, the Finnish flood myth, flood myths of native peoples in the Americas and Australia, etc.  The Great Flood myth of China and its hero Gun Yu are a very important part of Chinese culture and are attributed to being the start of the Chinese nation.  And this Flood's time period, around 3,000 B.C., would have placed it in the same general time period of the biblical Flood.

(And, of course, all the different names and memories of details can be attributed to the confusion surrounding the dispersion after the Tower of Babel.)
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Eric Jansen
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Posted: 13 October 2018 at 4:32pm | IP Logged | 5 post reply

Speaking of mankind, I was always baffled by Cain's wife. Who was she?

Adam and Eve had several kids, sure, but it didn't sound like they had a large number. So after Cain killed Abel, who became his wife? And who were the people he had to keep away from by "wearing" the Mark of Cain?
___________________________

Genesis 5:4 says that after Cain, Abel, and Seth, Adam and Eve "had many sons and daughters."  The scripture says that Adam lived into his 900's, so we can assume Eve did too.  Since they were commissioned with "replenishing the earth" (or simply "fill" the Earth), there's little reason they wouldn't have had children for as long as possible.  If they only had one baby a year, they could have had as many as 900 children, just by themselves.  Once their children started having children, we're talking a population of thousands or tens or thousands in a relatively short amount of time.  (I saw a newspaper article about a turn of the century Mexican immigrant surrounded by his 100 offspring.)  Living to your 900's implies perfect health, so there was no danger of health problems of these initial close relatives marrying.  Cain having a wife is no problem.  The "mark of Cain" protection is interesting.  Either it was to protect him from his future nieces and nephews or some animals (like the talking snake) might have been more intelligent than we normally think.  Or was there somebody else around that we know nothing about?  (The Bible does have some mysteries!) 


Edited by Eric Jansen on 13 October 2018 at 4:33pm
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Robbie Parry
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Posted: 13 October 2018 at 4:35pm | IP Logged | 6 post reply

Well, Eric, my friend, that's asking me to believe in people living into their 900s. ;-)

I'll respect anyone's right to believe, of course.
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John Byrne
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Posted: 13 October 2018 at 4:41pm | IP Logged | 7 post reply

We’re still talking about a lot of sister fucking, right?
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DW Zomberg
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Posted: 13 October 2018 at 4:48pm | IP Logged | 8 post reply

the tower of Babel

Using one myth to explain another is an act of desperation at best, lunacy at worst. Isn't it much simpler to recognize that primitive cultures saw the remains of animals killed during the Ice Age in places they wouldn't otherwise have been found and used magic to explain the mystery?

Occam's Razor, baby.


Edited by DW Zomberg on 13 October 2018 at 4:50pm
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Eric Jansen
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Posted: 13 October 2018 at 5:51pm | IP Logged | 9 post reply

Occam's Razor would dictate that if every culture with a written history remembers some sort of worldwide flood, maybe that's what happened.  Bringing in frozen mammoths to explain why everybody remembers rising waters and a man with a boat is a bit silly.
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John Byrne
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Posted: 13 October 2018 at 6:03pm | IP Logged | 10 post reply

Occam's Razor would dictate that if every culture with a written history remembers some sort of worldwide flood, maybe that's what happened.

•••

Disingenuous to say the least. At the time these “worldwide” events are described, the “world” is a very small, very local thing. Ask the people in Mexico Beach, Florida if their “whole world” has been destroyed. Then transplant that thinking back in time a few thousand years.

Yeah, “worldwide” floods must refer literally to the whole planet.

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Paul Kimball
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Posted: 13 October 2018 at 6:12pm | IP Logged | 11 post reply

Occam's Razor would dictate that if every culture with a written history
remembers some sort of worldwide flood, maybe that's what happened.   
+++++++++I
would say it's good evidence that every culture experienced rain but since
none of these cultures knew of each other and time frames aren't consistent,
the claim of the world having being flooded is questionable. Now if every one
of these cultures(Chinese, greek, South American, etc) all spoke about a man
in the Middle East named Noah, that would be more convincing. I have a hard
time understanding how all these culture that experienced the same thing
forgot about Noah.

Edited by Paul Kimball on 13 October 2018 at 6:16pm
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Peter Martin
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Posted: 13 October 2018 at 7:18pm | IP Logged | 12 post reply

Noah lived to be 950. What is there to doubt in this story?

Edited by Peter Martin on 13 October 2018 at 7:19pm
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