Active Topics | Member List | Search | Help | Register | Login
The John Byrne Forum
Byrne Robotics > The John Byrne Forum << Prev Page of 4
Topic: Trump Wants to Erase “Transgender” Post ReplyPost New Topic
Author
Message
Eric Kleefeld
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 21 December 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 4422
Posted: 24 October 2018 at 3:39pm | IP Logged | 1 post reply

Rick Whiting:

 QUOTE:
I have a question. Is it possible that transgender (and to a lesser extent, homosexuality) a form of intersex?

In a sense, yes.

The modern scientific understanding of transgender people — though the finer details are still being studied in depth, beyond just the big idea — is that they have brain structures that more closely resemble the opposite biological sex, thus creating a sense of personal consciousness of being a person of the opposite biological sex in a mismatched body.

What makes this all really fascinating, from my perspective, is that there are processes going on in each of our own brains, of which we're otherwise not even aware, but which profoundly affect who we are and how we experience the world. Not only am I a biological male, but my brain is formed in a way that I will expect myself to be a biological male.

This does get into some really tricky areas: Transgender people fear that they could be forced into strict biological tests before being allowed to transition, or end up being subjected to experimental "cures" that would damage them. There are also issues involving biological determinism, and whether this could be misused to justify different societal outcomes and achievement levels for men and women.

And, of course, most people don't like being regarded as walking laboratory specimens. But hey, I think that status goes for all of us, equally.

As our host said in this thread (and I'm glad to see JB's thoughts evolving, from the last time I saw anything on this subject years ago) the idea that there are naturally occurring variations in between the two major categories seems to frighten a lot of people — many of them white and male — who like the existing social hierarchies just fine and want to keep things that way.
Back to Top profile | search e-mail
 
Rick Whiting
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 22 April 2004
Posts: 2181
Posted: 24 October 2018 at 6:50pm | IP Logged | 2 post reply

Thanks for answering my question Eric. I have a couple of other questions to ask you if you don't mind answering them.

What's the deal with those transgender people who realize after they had transition that they prefer to be and/or identify as the sex that they were born as? How common is this?

If brain structures can determine what gender a person identifies themselves as, couldn't we detect whether or not a person is transgender when they are babies or even in the womb?
Back to Top profile | search
 
Mark Haslett
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 19 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 6059
Posted: 24 October 2018 at 9:57pm | IP Logged | 3 post reply

Saying that all gender falls into one of two binary categories without reference to the way an individual identifies is very helpful to someone who wants everything to fit into one of two binary categories.

But it does little to advance any understanding of humanity or human gender.

Here's something my friend wrote after she went through transition and was asked if she identified as transexual or as a woman:

"I think, in fact, that the concepts of male or female are so wrapped up with social roles, changing sexual feelings as one progresses through life, and also the specific context in which one finds oneself at the moment, that NOBODY on the planet would really have an answer for that one if they looked deep inside and reported truly.

What sets the transsexual apart for the rest of the world is simply that this person keeps asking the question over and over again. But when the transsexual evolves far enough emotionally, the question is asked less and less frequently, until one day it just doesn't come up any more.

At that moment, the individual ceases to be a transsexual and becomes a person. The man/woman, male/female, gay/straight, masculine/feminine of it, is how we classify others, either automatically and subconsciously, or consciously when contradictory information is observed. But none of those can be determined by looking at oneself. We know ourselves too well, and are fully aware that we are really not of a single mind, but rather are a constant turmoil of contradictory alternatives, through which we chart a course as best we can.

When an individual grows through experience to gradually shift the eye of critical awareness from oneself and back to the external world, that is when transition has come full circle. This is true not only for the transsexual, but for any human being who seeks to understand the nature of self. As Zen would describe it: first the mountain is a mountain, then it isn't, then it is. The key is not that the mountain appears the same at the end of the cycle, but that the observer has changed and come back to the same place as a different, more enlightened human being." (Melanie Anne Phillips)
Back to Top profile | search
 
Eric Kleefeld
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 21 December 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 4422
Posted: 28 October 2018 at 11:21am | IP Logged | 4 post reply

Here is a clip from a documentary TV show, on the nature of transgender brain differences — with slices of deceased people's brains, underneath a microscope.


What has come to be known as "gender identity" isn't separate from biology — it is a biological feature, located in the brain. And some people quite simply have a mixed set of male and female biological features.

This isn't recent news, either. That TV segment looks like it could be from the early half of the 2000s, at the latest. The research itself began way back in the 1980s, and had its first major results published in the 1990s.

(And yes, one of the top researchers in this field is the eminent Dutch neurologist, Dr. Dick Swaab. I wish to live in a society that is both socially enlightened, and where I can nevertheless continue to giggle like a 7th-grader over certain things.)
Back to Top profile | search e-mail
 
John Byrne
Avatar
Grumpy Old Guy

Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 132129
Posted: 28 October 2018 at 11:51am | IP Logged | 5 post reply

...the early half of the 2000s...

•••

Isn’t that NOW?

Back to Top profile | search
 
Eric Kleefeld
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 21 December 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 4422
Posted: 28 October 2018 at 3:59pm | IP Logged | 6 post reply

I meant, "the 2000s," as in the decade — the '00s!
Back to Top profile | search e-mail
 
Rick Whiting
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 22 April 2004
Posts: 2181
Posted: 28 October 2018 at 4:06pm | IP Logged | 7 post reply

Here is a clip from a documentary TV show, on the nature of transgender brain differences — with slices of deceased people's brains, underneath a microscope.

https://youtu.be/pJB4qpHMeAU

_________________________________________


Thank you for posting that link Eric. I will check that video out later.

Back to Top profile | search
 
Kevin Brown
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 31 May 2005
Location: United States
Posts: 8838
Posted: 28 October 2018 at 9:24pm | IP Logged | 8 post reply

This was unfurled during game 5 of the World Series.

Back to Top profile | search
 

If you wish to post a reply to this topic you must first login
If you are not already registered you must first register

<< Prev Page of 4
  Post ReplyPost New Topic
Printable version Printable version

Forum Jump
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot create polls in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum

 Active Topics | Member List | Search | Help | Register | Login