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Topic: and another mass shooting last night... Post ReplyPost New Topic
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Rebecca Jansen
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Posted: 08 November 2018 at 1:29pm | IP Logged | 1 post reply

Thousand Oaks, Ca... Borderline club. A dozen dead including a 54 year old Police sergeant. Seems like only a week or so since the last mass shooting (at a Jewish synagogue). :^(

I thought the turning point had come for the U.S. way back after the attempt on Reagan and the Brady bill... how did that all get swept away and tehn some including Reagan's own words calling on Republicans to support a ban on military style weapons? Why were 'gun show' sales treated so differently from gun shop sales? How did all the police saying they didn't want to have to face so much firepower available to civilians in the face of so-called groups of Police Chiefs consisting of three or five actual members apparently being fine with rising mortality for 'blue lives'?

It could be so different right now if the majority had been listened to, and they are still by far the majority. It's pretty much past the point of no return and people know that and don't want to be cut off from their chance at arming themselves in the escalating personal arms race allowed to spiral rather than have some job-killing regulation (and they're right, gun regulations would limit jobs as sales would be limited... jobs or money over lives; same as health care in some ways).
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Robbie Parry
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Posted: 08 November 2018 at 1:51pm | IP Logged | 2 post reply

It does feel like they are pretty much past the point of return, Rebecca.

If I were a survivor (or related to a person who had been shot), I would tell politicians to stick it if they offered the same old 'thoughts and prayers'.
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Brian Hague
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Posted: 08 November 2018 at 10:06pm | IP Logged | 3 post reply

Some of those in the Borderline bar last night are reported as having attended the Route 91 Harvest Music Festival last year. 

Reading the story in The New York Times, a father who showed up at the bar looking for his son, unable to get a response from him, pings his cell phone from the parking lot and says to the reporter that it's in there and not moving. In the Washington Post they confirm that his son is among the dead. 

Reportedly, five off-duty police officers were in the club. Security were the first persons shot by the gunman and apparently his primary targets as he came in. A policeman who entered the bar, a former member of the city's SWAT team, was also shot and killed. So no "good guys with guns" scenario here.

To everyone who supports the National Rifle Association and their paid employees in Congress, here's hoping someone you love is among the dead.

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Robbie Parry
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Posted: 09 November 2018 at 6:18am | IP Logged | 4 post reply

It's happening again:


People have a right to attend school without the threat of violence/being shot.

When is this going to end?!
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Eric Ladd
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Posted: 09 November 2018 at 8:09am | IP Logged | 5 post reply

The world was a much better place when people didn't fear getting shot. It seems unfortunate that the only way a "guns for all"supporter to change their thinking is to first become a victim. More American civilians have died to gun violence on American soil than US soldiers in war. More school kids have died in 2018 than US troops deployed in war zones. No matter how you slice the statistics it is bad news. Until someone starts shooting up NRA conventions I don't see it changing much.
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John Byrne
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Posted: 09 November 2018 at 9:07am | IP Logged | 6 post reply

Apparently, an American's chance of being shot in the course of his/her daily life--not a cop, not a soldier--is one in 325.
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DW Zomberg
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Posted: 09 November 2018 at 10:43am | IP Logged | 7 post reply

But it's the Muslims and Mexicans we really need to fear...

Don Z
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Robbie Parry
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Posted: 09 November 2018 at 12:07pm | IP Logged | 8 post reply

There was someone a while back (was it an elected representative?) who talked about having fewer doors in schools to deal with gun nuts? 

One, fewer doors is a fire hazard. Two, fewer doors would not deter a shooter. Three, does their fetish for guns go so far that they'd rather have fewer doors in buildings than deal with the issue?
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Eric Ladd
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Posted: 09 November 2018 at 1:55pm | IP Logged | 9 post reply

A gunman standing in the doorway of a building with only one door seems quite a bit like shooting fish in a barrel to me, but the people taking donations from the NRA would have you believe it is safer.
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Eric Sofer
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Posted: 09 November 2018 at 7:15pm | IP Logged | 10 post reply

Agreed with my fellow Eric. How many doors DOES an insane shooter need to enter a school?
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Rebecca Jansen
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Posted: 09 November 2018 at 9:52pm | IP Logged | 11 post reply

A right to bear arms vs. a right not to have to bear arms? Even old west towns required people to check their shooting irons in, and that was before extended magazines and such... didn't anyone back then think to say, "but the baduns might not check theirs in, so I wanna be packing just in case!" Guess Americans were less free back then...


Edited by Rebecca Jansen on 09 November 2018 at 9:57pm
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Charles Valderrama
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Posted: 09 November 2018 at 10:06pm | IP Logged | 12 post reply

Truly disturbing... in documents obtained by ABC News, right before or during shooting, the Thousand Oaks killer wrote on social media, "the only thing you people do after these shootings is ‘hopes and prayers’… or ‘keep you in my thoughts’… every time… and wonder why these keep happening…"

LINK

Unbelievable...

-C!

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Leigh DJ Hunt
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Posted: 10 November 2018 at 10:08am | IP Logged | 13 post reply

Interesting that he said he wasn't insane and yet his actions and these posts certainly suggest a maniac.

Also, maybe more predictable is the continued link between mass shooters and their previous history of committing domestic violence towards women.
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Steve De Young
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Posted: 10 November 2018 at 9:40pm | IP Logged | 14 post reply

If only there was something we could do about this, says only country in which this ever happens.
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Matt Reed
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Posted: 11 November 2018 at 4:15am | IP Logged | 15 post reply

Nice copy of an Onion headline...

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John Byrne
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Posted: 11 November 2018 at 10:41am | IP Logged | 16 post reply

The gun fetishists want us to turn back to the Wild West (which was not nearly so wild as people think). If we limit access to firearms, they say, the “bad guys” will still be able to get guns, and we will be at their mercy.

This is akin to arguing that we should make no laws or regulations, since the “bad guys” do what they want anyway.

Statistics show that “good guys” with guns, while occasionally being in the right place at the right time, barely make a dent in the overall death rate. Far more people die than are saved. The “bad guys” do, indeed, get guns—but does that mean we shouldn’t make it really hard for them to do so?

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Robbie Parry
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Posted: 11 November 2018 at 10:47am | IP Logged | 17 post reply

 John Byrne wrote:
The gun fetishists want us to turn back to the Wild West (which was not nearly so wild as people think).

I read a book a few years back. I can't recall the title, it may have been something like "How We Got History Wrong". It's purpose was to debunk historical myths.

One chapter, which appeared to be very well researched, put forward the case that Victorian Britain was far more violent than the Wild West.
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Michael Penn
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Posted: 11 November 2018 at 10:54am | IP Logged | 18 post reply

A few weeks ago there was that Pittsburgh synagogue shooting. I know many people from that community. Devastated, they are. What to do? Arm every adult congregant? Definitely not. But right-place/right-time could mean having guards at the entrance of a synagogue. I am, both personally and professionally (I'm a law professor), opposed to the radical reinterpretation of the 2d Amend in recent decades. But as a Jew, I can't say I'm not just a little bit grateful to see the guards in front of the synagogues where I live.
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Brian Miller
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Posted: 12 November 2018 at 10:07pm | IP Logged | 19 post reply

How about this?

https://mobile.twitter.com/EricHaywood/status/10619892257745 59233?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1 061989225774559233&ref_url=http%3A%2F%2Fforums.theskyisc rape.com%2Fviewtopic.php%3Ff%3D5%26t%3D3441%26p%3D1255509%23 p1255509

Good thing there was a good guy there with a gun, huh?
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Eric Sofer
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Posted: 13 November 2018 at 10:37am | IP Logged | 20 post reply

Michael P., my heart is twice broken by your observation. Once that guards must be in place to protect the shul and congregants, and once that we have to resort to weapons to protect ourselves. I know that, from generation to generation, we have to defend ourselves to exist... and I know that some religions use gatherings not only to worship and teach and celebrate, but also to plot and plan and scheme attacks.

The real solutions to this situation are so radical that I don't think our society as it now stands could tolerate the adaptations. But... what we ARE tolerating right now may really demand some radical solutions.
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Robbie Parry
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Posted: 13 November 2018 at 1:26pm | IP Logged | 21 post reply

Where will it all end?

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