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Topic: Avengers: Endgame ~ SPOILERS start Pg 7 Post ReplyPost New Topic
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Adam Schulman
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Posted: 23 April 2020 at 12:11am | IP Logged | 1 post reply

In retrospect...

Overall, it's excellent. But a lot of choices were made that I think were the wrong choices. Or at least a few were. They might have softened some emotional blows (no Morgan Stark, so no "I love you 3000") but spared future Marvel movies some problems (every movie through 2023 actually takes place in 2023? Really? And people's younger siblings are now their older siblings, etc...?).
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Matt Reed
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Posted: 24 April 2020 at 2:42am | IP Logged | 2 post reply

I still like INFINITY WAR more.  I felt the choices made at the start of ENDGAME were off (it actually lasted 5 years?!?) and Tony Stark's incredibly selfish demand is about the most horribly unheroic of any superhero movie...ever: bring them all back, but not at the expense of my child.  So literally millions of people have to live with all sorts of pain and suffering because one man decided his ONE child was worth more.  Hated, absolutely HATED that.  ENDGAME has some elements that I find enjoyable, but there are some cardinal rules it breaks that make me dislike characters more.  Not a good tradeoff.  
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James Woodcock
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Posted: 24 April 2020 at 3:49am | IP Logged | 3 post reply

But in the context that the five years couldn't be changed
anyway, was that so selfish?
He's basically saying 'We don't drag my family into this
(although, clearly they are because Pepper turns up at the
end). I can understand that
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Shawn Kane
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Posted: 24 April 2020 at 5:35am | IP Logged | 4 post reply

I don't disagree about Tony Stark, Matt. But having a daughter myself, the parts with his daughter really got to me so I didn't see his decision so much as selfish as "This is what life has given us, deal with it." Still not heroic, though.

As a Captain America fan, I still have a problem with him going back in time and getting together with Peggy instead of saving Bucky. If he was going to do something, why not save Bucky so that all the suffering he went through and caused, didn't happen?
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John Popa
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Posted: 24 April 2020 at 5:50am | IP Logged | 5 post reply

I love that last hour of "Endgame," the entirety of the final battle is the epic finale I wanted it to be - and then some. 

I didn't enjoy the time travel parts much, just because it felt like killing time  more than a really dramatic adventure.

"Infinity War" is my favorite of the MCU movies, and tagged with that last hour or so of "Endgame," that's the super hero epic I would never have imagined I'd ever get to see in a movie.
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Jim Muir
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Posted: 24 April 2020 at 7:16am | IP Logged | 6 post reply

Endgame has become for me, largely unwatchable.

While I thoroughly enjoyed it at the cinema, little things bugged me but caught up in the noise, fury and excitement it was very easy to brush them aside. Coming back to the movie later, with the initial excitement gone, these little things got larger and larger to the point where I don't even like the movie very much anymore. 
And I'm not revealing any new faults, it's stuff that's been talked about ad nauseum - I felt the characters were treated very poorly: fat Thor, pointless Hulk, murderous Hawkeye; the muddy time travelling mid section. Now I'm a huge fan of time travel, but this was meandering and uninteresting, kind of a time travel movie for people who don't like time travel. I mean, the Avengers going back in time to meet themselves in the battle of New York should have been incredible, right? It's classic Marvel, but here... meh. Captain America handing over the mantle to... Sam? Sorry Bucky, never really liked you that much. And after an entire season's worth of movies to locate the stones, Cap simply returns them all offscreen. Weird.

Many, many scenes in isolation work really well, but as a whole, I find it a bit of a scrappy mess.
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Shaun Barry
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Posted: 24 April 2020 at 2:03pm | IP Logged | 7 post reply


"...and Tony Stark's incredibly selfish demand is about the most horribly unheroic of any superhero movie...ever:  bring them all back, but not at the expense of my child."

I find this a really odd criticism.  Hasn't it been established that Tony can sometimes be self-centered and selfish?  But because he's "selfish" in the sense that he doesn't want to lose or sacrifice his only child, somehow that suddenly makes him just the worst??

And ultimately, isn't this part of the drama and his arc in this film?  He had trepidation (or "demands") at first (after he almost died at the beginning of the film!); he cracks the time travel code and comes around to help the team; then by the end sacrifices himself, for the needs of all others?



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Shaun Barry
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Posted: 24 April 2020 at 5:55pm | IP Logged | 8 post reply


"As a Captain America fan, I still have a problem with him going back in time and getting together with Peggy instead of saving Bucky. If he was going to do something, why not save Bucky so that all the suffering he went through and caused, didn't happen?"

Shawn K., Bucky ultimately survived and worked side-by-side with Steve Rogers and the Avengers, but Peggy Carter had died.  If you didn't think he was going to go back and make up time with his lost lady-love, you weren't paying attention!  :)



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Shaun Barry
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Posted: 24 April 2020 at 5:59pm | IP Logged | 9 post reply


"I didn't enjoy the time travel parts much, just because it felt like killing time more than a really dramatic adventure."

The scenes of Tony meeting his father, Steve seeing Peggy, and Thor seeing his mother again (on the day she dies!) weren't dramatic??



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Shaun Barry
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Posted: 24 April 2020 at 6:12pm | IP Logged | 10 post reply


"Captain America handing over the mantle to... Sam? Sorry Bucky, never really liked you that much. And after an entire season's worth of movies to locate the stones, Cap simply returns them all offscreen. Weird."

Don't forget, Bucky (as the Winter Solider) was a political assassin, before being rehabilitated.  Makes more sense to pass it off to Sam, and at least there's been precedence in the modern Marvel comics.

As for Cap & the stones:  The movie was already 3 hrs. long... did anyone really need 10 or 20 more minutes of showing the laborious process of Cap returning the stones from whence they came??  It was the end of the movie, they needed to wrap it up!  :)



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Steve Coates
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Posted: 24 April 2020 at 6:50pm | IP Logged | 11 post reply

Yes, Shaun! I was really interested in seeing Captain America convert the Reality Stone back into the Aether. And then put the Aether back into Jane Foster.
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John Popa
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Posted: 25 April 2020 at 6:43am | IP Logged | 12 post reply

"I didn't enjoy the time travel parts much, just because it felt like killing time more than a really dramatic adventure."

The scenes of Tony meeting his father, Steve seeing Peggy, and Thor seeing his mother again (on the day she dies!) weren't dramatic??

-----

Not to me, they were interesting and in Steve's case extemely emotional, but I didn't really feel like any of them added to the conflict or help create tension about whether or not (or HOW) the mission to get the stones would succeed.

Your mileage may vary, of course. 
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