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Topic: Time to scream Get off my lawn to character reinterpretations Post ReplyPost New Topic
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Shane Matlock
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Posted: 09 January 2019 at 6:30pm | IP Logged | 1 post reply

Yes, that's why I say it was more likely they were in the closet rather than suddenly transforming from straight to gay, even though both had been married and in multiple relationships with women. In the case of fictional people like Bobby Drake and Johnny Storm though, we've seen their thoughts for years. I do think human sexuality is a bit of a spectrum, but I also believe you are born gay or straight and that it isn't a choice. 
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Eric Jansen
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Posted: 09 January 2019 at 10:29pm | IP Logged | 2 post reply

"I think one of Daken's powers is an ability to seduce absolutely anyone."

Anyone concerned that our beloved Human Torch is going to be subjected by Marvel to what amounts to rape?
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Matt Hawes
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Posted: 10 January 2019 at 3:08am | IP Logged | 3 post reply

 Ronald Joseph wrote:
...Were you referring to Bobby Drake or Johnny Storm? Because I just learned that Johnny's bisexual now...and is "involved" with Wolverine's son. 


...

Crazy! That page at the link cites a book where the author claims there were signs that Johnny was gay in "Fantastic Four" #1, and the web page actually uses a panel from JB's run on the title as more evidence.  People really can read whatever they want into something. 

I'm for diversity in comics and all media, but I am not a fan of changing established characters,  especially when it flies in the face of what came before (No, I don't believe Stan and Jack hid signs in FF #1 that Johnny was gay or bi-sexual).


Edited by Matt Hawes on 10 January 2019 at 3:09am
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Brian Hague
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Posted: 10 January 2019 at 8:10am | IP Logged | 4 post reply

Eric, whatever you're worried is going to happen has already taken place. The romance between the two is spoken of in the past tense in Dark Wolverine #4 from 2010. 

It is interesting that with all of the cartwheels and backflips Marvel did with Dan Slott's Starfox trial, they have since come out with Daken, a sweaty, hyper-violent badass who routinely doses whomever he chooses with his irresistible pheromones to bed them and no one says "boo." 

Also worth noting from back in the day, Jim Shooter had Moondragon take over Thor with her mental powers and bed him, to apparently no one's objections. Thor took her to face justice in Odin's court more for her attack on the Avengers and takeover of an alien civilization than her use of him as a boytoy, and her punishment was to wear a power-dampening headband and hang out with the J.M. DeMatteis-era Defenders, admittedly something I would not wish on anybody.

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Brian Hague
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Posted: 10 January 2019 at 8:38am | IP Logged | 5 post reply

It's also worth noting that for academic purposes, the "authorial intent" of whether Stan and Jack meant to hint anything about Johnny being gay would be of little to no importance to those making the argument. Authorial intent is only one means of examining a work, and hardly the best one from many perspectives in academia. Clueless White men have no idea what they're actually writing about and their deliberate attempt to skew things in their direction more often than not tilts the other way when looked at from the "proper" perspective, so many would say. 

Just the fact that Johnny is "flaming" would mean that something out there in society was coloring his portrayal as a young man in search of his own sexual identity in a repressed, yet newly awakening decade. If Reed were the target of the paper, his straight-laced demeanor would be discussed as a stern, socially-necessary mask for his more fluid and adaptive true self which he must undress to access. Should Ben be the subject of the term paper in question, his self-loathing and "ugly" self would force him to greater and greater levels of bravado and masculine signalling to disguise the true self he knows he can never show the world... Sue? Anyone want to identity-signal Sue? No problem. She is the one we never see, not fully. She is subversive. Unseen. Not talked about in any meaningful way. Her true talent it is later revealed is her ability to shield herself behind countless, undetectable walls. Once her true self's power is known, she is seen by others as repellent. Hard. Unyielding. Her only escape? Flee into a facade of middle-class marital conformity and have a child immediately, so as to throw off suspicion. 

That Stan and Jack never saw these traits in the characters they themselves were writing shows how deeply hidden these traits had to remain in society at that time... Or so the argument could run. Academia cares not for the simplistic, straight-forward answer. You're never going to get a lecture tour telling people the version of the story already written on the page. You've got to go deeper than that and look at it with a definite bias if you're going to turn things around in an interesting way.

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John Byrne
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Posted: 10 January 2019 at 9:13am | IP Logged | 6 post reply

Uhm... That panel of mine that they “quote”. They DO realize Julie is talking about someone other than Johnny. Don’t they?
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Brennan Voboril
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Posted: 10 January 2019 at 10:16am | IP Logged | 7 post reply

Stan and Jack gave us signs Johnny was gay in FF #1?  Ha ha.  What a world this has become. 
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Brian Miller
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Posted: 10 January 2019 at 10:56am | IP Logged | 8 post reply

Sadly no, JB, they don’t. 
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John Byrne
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Posted: 10 January 2019 at 11:19am | IP Logged | 9 post reply

Marvel Serendipity used to be a wonderful thing. Someone could suggest something (as I did, with Magneto being the father of Wanda and Pietro), and, lo and behold, there would turn out to be all kinds of "evidence" in support of the idea. Almost as if the original creators had it planned out all along.

But now, it's become more a case of bending and twisting elements to support a case. Like quoting my panel out of context, for instance.

Sad.

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Greg Kirkman
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Posted: 10 January 2019 at 11:37am | IP Logged | 10 post reply

I'm for diversity in comics and all media, but I am not a fan of changing established characters,  especially when it flies in the face of what came before (No, I don't believe Stan and Jack hid signs in FF #1 that Johnny was gay or bi-sexual).
++++++++

This, this, this.
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Brennan Voboril
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Posted: 10 January 2019 at 11:46am | IP Logged | 11 post reply

I am sure glad I grew up during the Silver Age / Bronze Age when comics were a lot fun and didn't have all the baggage we see today.  There has been some great work since but the dark and strange turns we see today turn me off. 
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John Byrne
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Posted: 10 January 2019 at 1:13pm | IP Logged | 12 post reply

Careful, Brennan! You’re setting yourself up to be declared a homophobe!
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