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John Byrne
Robot Wrangler
Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 102266
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| Posted: 24 April 2005 at 9:25am | IP Logged | 1
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And I'm still amazed by the people who can come in from the outside and tell someone who's been a Pro for a few decades he's wrong about what he does for a living. Even by going to an Extreme example to clearly show that even if a large (tho not majority) number of people can use a wrong term it doesn't make it right, they find a way to miss the point. ****** Not long after I first came online, I encountered a poster was was the self-declared "World's Greatest Spiderman Fan" --- and I, of course, pointed out to him that it is "Spider-Man". He responded by saying a Google seach of "Spiderman" produced just as many hits as "Spider-Man" so it "must be right". Eventually he even started announcing that he was spelling it "Spiderman" "because it bugs Byrne". Talk about needing to get a life!
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Jonathan Stover
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 01 June 2004
Posts: 749
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| Posted: 24 April 2005 at 9:27am | IP Logged | 2
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John Byrne wrote:
And Its a PANEL not a FRAME!!!!!
******
I'll add that to the list! |
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The Globe and Mail's review of Sin City referred to comic panels as "cells"!
Now if someone could just define a Steranko effect...
Cheers, Jon
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John Byrne
Robot Wrangler
Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 102266
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| Posted: 24 April 2005 at 10:48am | IP Logged | 3
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JB, the "splash page" can only be the first full page of a comic, is that correct? For example, if there's a full page panel in the middle of a story, it technically isn't the splash page, right?****** There are two very similar terms that are used here -- Splash Page and Full Page Splash. The first indicates the page with the title (usually, tho not always the first page of the story), wile the second indicates a full page illustration on any other page --- tho this might get a bit sticky if a full page splash was used for the first page, but did not contain the title. Anyway, I'll add this to the list.
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John Byrne
Robot Wrangler
Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 102266
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| Posted: 24 April 2005 at 10:56am | IP Logged | 4
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I agree with the bubble/balloon thing. I have heard both words used to describe the same thing. Nobody got confused.****** Confusion is not the issue. Correct usage is.
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Eric Kleefeld
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 21 December 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 4422
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| Posted: 24 April 2005 at 11:04am | IP Logged | 5
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JB, are all these people in the Midwest who say "pop" objectively wrong?
The Spider-Man/Spiderman thing is a false comparison. Spider-Man
is a fictional person. Therefore, his name is a proper noun that
has a specific correct rendering. Bubble/balloon or soda/pop are
common nouns, where the linguistic rules are much more flexible.
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Ray Brady
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 3740
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| Posted: 24 April 2005 at 11:14am | IP Logged | 6
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Eric Kleefeld wrote:
| Bubble/balloon or soda/pop are common nouns, where the linguistic rules are much more flexible. |
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I think the point here is that "balloon" in the context of comics is NOT a common noun; it's industry jargon.
If you want to talk to a soft drink manufacturer about the soft drink industry, you probably don't want to call it pop.
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John Mietus
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 9704
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| Posted: 24 April 2005 at 11:23am | IP Logged | 7
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Eric Kleefeld wrote:
JB, are all these people in the Midwest who say
"pop" objectively wrong?
The Spider-Man/Spiderman thing is a false comparison. Spider-Man
is a fictional person. Therefore, his name is a proper noun that
has a specific correct rendering. Bubble/balloon or soda/pop are
common nouns, where the linguistic rules are much more flexible.
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Eric, while I realize you address this to JB, I feel compelled to answer.
1) I live in the Midwest, have done so most of my life, and have always
said "soda."
2) The term is "balloon," or, more accurately, "word balloon." It is a as
technical a term as any industry that has specialized terms to refer to
various aspects of that industry. Calling it a "bubble" is wrong, period,
just as calling the pixel depth of a .jpeg file the "dpi" of the image is
wrong (pixel depth is measured in "ppi" - pixels per inch. lpi refers to line
screen value, and dpi only ever refers to final output from a printer).
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Eric Kleefeld
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 21 December 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 4422
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| Posted: 24 April 2005 at 11:25am | IP Logged | 8
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I'd bet you there are soft drink executives in the Midwest who do call
it "pop". And if there are comics pros who say "bubble", then
"bubble" is an acceptable alternative.
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Eric Kleefeld
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 21 December 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 4422
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| Posted: 24 April 2005 at 11:28am | IP Logged | 9
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1) I live in the Midwest, have done so most of my life, and have always
said "soda."
**********
Well, the vast majority of people here in Wisconsin say "pop", and it's
my understanding that the same situation holds in Minnesota and Iowa,
as well as a few other states. Me, I'm still saying "soda", but
nobody gets confused when I use my favored word or when they use
theirs. There's an acceptable level of variation.
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John Mietus
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 9704
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| Posted: 24 April 2005 at 11:33am | IP Logged | 10
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Eric Kleefeld wrote:
I'd bet you there are soft drink executives in the
Midwest who do call
it "pop". And if there are comics pros who say "bubble", then
"bubble" is an acceptable alternative.
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I've heard Adobe tech support people refer to ppi as dpi. Doesn't make it
right.
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Ed Deans.
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 28 November 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 857
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| Posted: 24 April 2005 at 12:50pm | IP Logged | 11
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Eric Kleefeld wrote:
| JB, are all these people in the Midwest who say "pop" objectively wrong? |
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So besides misdirect the discussion and bring up irrelevencies just to
try to prove you're right and Byrne is wrong what else can you offer
here? We're not talking about carbonated beverages and regional
differences.
The only time I've ever encountered "bubble" was in the context of
non-verbalized text or "thought bubbles" but that was someone who had
no professional capacity from which to draw. Thought balloon,
word balloon... these terms are defined in pretty much any comics or
cartooning related book you could pick up in a book store. I've always
encountered it as balloon in such works.
Something else to consider is this: bubbles don't have tails. Balloons
do. Thus is you're going to describe any geometric design which
will circumscribe text and include an indicator to suggest the speaker
or originator of the text you are probably going to say it's a balloon.
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Ed Deans.
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 28 November 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 857
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| Posted: 24 April 2005 at 1:01pm | IP Logged | 12
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Eric Kleefeld wrote:
I'd bet you there are soft drink executives in the Midwest who do call
it "pop". And if there are comics pros who say "bubble", then
"bubble" is an acceptable alternative.
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And now we're appealing to fantom authorities. Are you studying law or politics?
I sense a liberal debater in our midst. Keep going and maybe we can run the whole gammut of fallacious arguments. ;)
Just accept that Byrne is right. Look now, the whole point of his
original post on his board is to define terms so we can have useful and
productive discussions with some common ground with which to
work. It's a bit of the Socratic Method. It's necessary to define
your terms before you can debate and discuss. Without laying the
groundwork of common terms you end up in mindless chatter that happens
in the press, in many politicized speeches and throughout those
worthless analysis shows on cable.
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