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Topic: Star Trek: Discovery ~ Season 2 Post ReplyPost New Topic
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Matt Reed
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Posted: 02 February 2019 at 2:07am | IP Logged | 1 post reply

 Greg Kirkman wrote:
No other STAR TREK series prior to the Abramsverse and STD went out of its way to strip-mine the original characters and concepts.

This is patently untrue.  The first season of TNG was a rehash of TOS episodes. They then went on to bring back characters from TOS into their universe in an obvious bid to win over old fans like myself.  ENTERPRISE literally bent over backwards in an attempt to pay homage to/strip-mine the original depending on your particular bent. Every. Single. Series. Has evoked the concepts of TOS from TNG to DISCOVERY. Every. One. The only two series not to do that in such an obvious way were DS9 and Voyager and that's because they happened outside the Federation in small and large ways: one an outpost at the edge of space and the other in a different galaxy trying to get home.  

Your hatred for this content is obvious, Greg.  That you continue to follow threads about something you so obviously despise and yet haven't seen boarders on the pathological.  


 QUOTE:
But, no, Spock gets trotted out so as to allow the thoroughly unlikable Burnham to leech off of him and get herself forced into the lore retroactively. Another case of The Next Big Thing being forced onto the fandom by making her integral to the story of a legacy character we actually do love. And, like a transplant gone bad, the body of the fandom is rejecting it. See also STAR WARS, DOCTOR WHO, and (likely) the upcoming CAPTAIN MARVEL.

This says more about you than anything else.  To a fan (and I'm not talking disgusting masochistic Reddit threads) I don't know a Doctor Who fan who doesn't like the new female lead.  We've tussled on SW before, so I'll leave it be except your insistence on Rey being a Mary Sue (your go-to in these discussions) or added at the insistence of the SJW. Ridiculous.   And then the audacity to lump all of that into a film you haven't seen with a female lead who has been the character for decades in the comics? Carol Danvers has been Captain Marvel for longer than you've been alive.  She started as Ms. Marvel in 1977! Seriously. What fan boards are you following?  Wow.

Two Star Wars films made over $3 billion dollars and the current Doctor Who is a smashing success.  I only wish I could create something that is so "rejected" by "the body of the fandom". 
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Richard Stevens
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Posted: 02 February 2019 at 4:35pm | IP Logged | 2 post reply

Even DS9 did the delightful "Trials and Tribbleations".
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Peter Martin
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Posted: 02 February 2019 at 10:58pm | IP Logged | 3 post reply

I found the latest episode a little strange. It felt very, very in tune with the first season, but out of tune with the previous episode which had gone down so well (judging by feedback here). I have no idea what is going on behind the scenes, but I was slightly concerned at one point watching the 'previously on Star Trek Discovery' recap that I had accidentally recorded a rerun of an episode from last season.

Anyway, it did surprise me in at least a couple of ways. I'm glad that Spock still hasn't re-appeared, Pike continued to work well and the Tilly parasite actually made me squirm quite nicely. Nothing brilliant in this episode, but it worked well enough. 


Edited by Peter Martin on 02 February 2019 at 10:58pm
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Peter Martin
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Posted: 02 February 2019 at 11:10pm | IP Logged | 4 post reply

Carol Danvers has been Captain Marvel for longer than you've been alive.  She started as Ms. Marvel in 1977.

------------------------------------------------------------ -----------
Matt, you make a bunch of sense nearly all the time, but I'm confused by what you wrote here.

Carol Danvers has been Ms Marvel for a long time. But being Ms Marvel is not the same as being Captain Marvel. She's been Captain Marvel since 2012 and Greg, youngster that he is, predates that I am sure.

I think it's only sensible and proper, though, that if someone is to be commenting regularly in this thread that they watch the show. Greg, you are an intelligent and articulate person, but you really do need to watch to the show to comment meaningfully!
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James Woodcock
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Posted: 03 February 2019 at 12:34am | IP Logged | 5 post reply

To be fair re Ms Marvel/Captain Marvel, there has been a female Captain Marvel since the mid ‘80’s.

That Marvel finally woke up & realised that a Female Captain Marvel should be Carol Danvers in 2012 reflects more on Marvel missing a trick back in the ‘80’s than anything else.

& Rey is not the issue with the new Star Wars films. For me, it was the portrayal of Luke in TLJ (together with the longest car chase in film history and the concept that freeing animals is better than freeing slaves). Rey I’m fine with & I really don’t get the whole Mary Sue thing. & I also liked the new Doctor, but then I didn’t really like Capaldi’s Doctor. So, you know, maybe I don’t fit the demographic mentality that has a problem with these things.

It’s a bit like belonging to a church with a female Pastor (my wife). You would not believe the things some male Pastors think are acceptable to say to her, purely because she is a female.

Why are some men so threatened by females in certain roles? Why do women in certain roles diminish some men so much?

Edit - I've debated with myself about asking this last question, but you know what? Sod it

How weak are you as a man, that you feel personally threatened by women in roles historically occupied by men? Why does a woman, over there, doing something that prevents you achieving not one jot, personally offend and threaten your sense of self?

This whole Mary Sue crap is a created concept by men that want to keep women down. That you cannot see that the action genre has been dominated by Joe Pete's (for want of a better term) is incredulous.

And if you are offended personally by any of these questions, then yes, you are the 'you' in those questions and need to rethink your view of women.


Edited by James Woodcock on 03 February 2019 at 1:00am
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John Byrne
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Posted: 03 February 2019 at 6:02am | IP Logged | 6 post reply

It’s a bit like belonging to a church with a female Pastor (my wife). You would not believe the things some male Pastors think are acceptable to say to her, purely because she is a female.

Why are some men so threatened by females in certain roles? Why do women in certain roles diminish some men so much?

•••

In the case of female pastors, it might have something to do with what it says in the instruction manual.

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James Woodcock
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Posted: 03 February 2019 at 6:19am | IP Logged | 7 post reply

Only when people don’t look @ the context of what was written 
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John Byrne
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Posted: 03 February 2019 at 6:49am | IP Logged | 8 post reply

1Corinthians:

34 Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience as also saith the law.

35 And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.

By all means, spin that for me.

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Rob Ocelot
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Posted: 03 February 2019 at 8:54am | IP Logged | 9 post reply

Aw c'mon man, we aren't even off page 2 yet...

Whoever said current politics makes STAR TREK better should be dragged out back and shot... :-)
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Brian Miller
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Posted: 03 February 2019 at 8:58am | IP Logged | 10 post reply

That being said, I am totally maxed-out on archaeological, cash-grab rehashes of old characters and properties.

*******

How can you say this with a straight face? You hold absolute disdain for Discovery (which you haven’t watched) for being guilty of this, yet you praise every detail of THE ORVILLE that takes anything from Star Trek. You love it. Why is it ok for one to lift from Trek and not the other?
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John Byrne
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Posted: 03 February 2019 at 9:33am | IP Logged | 11 post reply

I think you may be misunderstanding what Greg means by “archeological”.
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Greg Kirkman
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Posted: 03 February 2019 at 11:52am | IP Logged | 12 post reply

Hey, remember in STAR TREK when the death of a crewman—any crewman, regardless of rank, race, or gender—was treated as a tragic event? When all of the characters, no matter how minor, were treated with dignity and respect? Huh.

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