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John Byrne
Imaginary X-Man
Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 114014
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| Posted: 10 February 2019 at 8:33am | IP Logged | 1
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Whenever someone dies, be they near to me or far, friend or celebrity, I find my mind cannot get away from contemplations of their condition. Not really "their", of course. Whatever our views might be on the Afterlife, the person we knew is GONE. What remains is leftover hamburger, to be dealt with in what is deemed an appropriate manner.Often, I find myself thinking back to the following exchange, from ELIZABETH R, starring Glenda Jackson. The subject is the recently beheaded Mary, Queen of Scots. Walsingham: She is at rest, madam. And with God's good grace, she will find eternal peace. Queen Elizabeth I: Peace. You are much mistaken, Sir Francis. There is no peace for the dead. This is a busy time for my royal cousin. Already the creatures are at work, crawling between her lips, entering her nose, burrowing beneath her eyes. Worms cluster in her belly, competing with foul maggots for the tastiest morsel. Even now she is being invaded by a legion of grey flesh-eaters. Even now the body writhes and moves with the activities of countless parasites. There is no peace for my cousin, Sir Francis, and will be none till she is consumed and rotten. Only then will her white bones be at rest. This is our common end, old Moor, picked clean by worms, flesh curdling with corruption, stinking like a blocked midden. So do not talk to me of God's good grace. Dying is a fearful process. I have known death since I was a child. I have stared long into his white, unseeing eyes. I know his dread cruelty. When you are lying on your last bed remember my words. Cry out for mercy. Bite deep into your lips, and recall how you plotted my cousin's most terrible end.
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Thomas Woods
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 09 June 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 1281
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| Posted: 10 February 2019 at 9:30am | IP Logged | 2
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That is pretty dark.
Here is something that I started thinking recently. It may or may not
make sense. It started off thinking about the Star Trek transporter killing
you every time you used it, but then I stated wondering if it could
happen in our lives in certain situations. Maybe when the hospital puts
you under out before surgery, or maybe every night when you sleep.
Then it went on another tangent when I started thinking how my sister
was as a child compared to the way she is now, and I felt that child
version of her is truly gone, there is no afterlife where I will get to meet
that version of her again. The same goes for past versions of me and
other people I know. When they were truly innocent and some cases
you feel that is the version of them that should be allowed to pass on.
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John Byrne
Imaginary X-Man
Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 114014
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| Posted: 10 February 2019 at 9:53am | IP Logged | 3
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Everything slips into the Past and is GONE. A person dies. And is GONE. This is incomprehensible for some. That’s why we invent Heaven—and promptly turn it into a way to punish those who are not US.
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Bill Mimbu
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 14 April 2008
Location: United States
Posts: 6996
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| Posted: 10 February 2019 at 10:00am | IP Logged | 4
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KRYTEN: "Don't be sad, Mr David. I am going to a far, far better place."
LISTER: "Just out of interest: Is silicon heaven the same place as human heaven?"
KRYTEN: "Human heaven? Goodness me! Humans don't go to heaven! No,someone made that up to prevent you all from going nuts!"
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Thomas Woods
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 09 June 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 1281
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| Posted: 10 February 2019 at 10:10am | IP Logged | 5
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Everything slips into the Past and is GONE. A person
dies. And is GONE. This is incomprehensible for some.
That’s why we invent Heaven—and promptly turn it into a
way to punish those who are not US.
--
That way of thinking of my sister had me thinking you
are right, that we will pass just like that little girl
I knew is no longer around.
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Andrew Saxon
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 19 June 2016
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 304
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| Posted: 10 February 2019 at 11:31am | IP Logged | 6
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Wouldn't it be nice if time was like a landscape you could travel at will. Just over those mountains are my long dead grandparents, living their lives with me visiting them as a boy. Along that path my earliest ancestors climb down from the trees. In another direction I am being born, while over thataway I simultaneously take my final breath. Everything happening at once. Oh for the transportation that would allow me to travel that land in any direction I choose.
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John Byrne
Imaginary X-Man
Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 114014
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| Posted: 10 February 2019 at 12:23pm | IP Logged | 7
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Andrew, that’s called “memory”, and the best thing about it is that the Past keeps getting better!
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Thomas Woods
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 09 June 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 1281
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| Posted: 10 February 2019 at 12:49pm | IP Logged | 8
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On a different note. If we are in a matrix and ‘die’, what if the guys
running the thing send us to ‘hell matrix’ for a week, just to mess with
us.
Edited by Thomas Woods on 10 February 2019 at 12:49pm
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John Byrne
Imaginary X-Man
Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 114014
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| Posted: 10 February 2019 at 12:51pm | IP Logged | 9
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God is Love. How can there possibly be a hell?Oh, right, because Jesus described it to us.
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Paul Kimball
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 21 September 2006
Location: United States
Posts: 1809
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| Posted: 10 February 2019 at 1:00pm | IP Logged | 10
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I know it's totally illogical but I do like to imagine a heaven for pets and I find it
comforting.
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Michael Penn
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 12 April 2006
Location: United States
Posts: 10308
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| Posted: 10 February 2019 at 5:22pm | IP Logged | 11
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Like having children, experiencing the death of a loved one is unique. You can contemplate what it might be like, but until it happens to you, you don't know. You don't know the absolute finality of death for those still here. Calling the one who died the deceased itself is too personifying. But for our memories, he or she might well be called not merely the non-existent but the never-existed. All the more reason to treasure our (also all too-mortal) memories.
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Rich Marzullo
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 13 January 2011
Location: United States
Posts: 2261
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| Posted: 10 February 2019 at 5:41pm | IP Logged | 12
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I recently read an article that said scientists believe a person is aware of the fact that they've passed away. So there's that.
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Thomas Woods
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 09 June 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 1281
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| Posted: 10 February 2019 at 6:18pm | IP Logged | 13
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There was an old movie, I think British, where a scientist figured out we
each have our own death angel that comes for us. He set out trying to
figure out how to trap them and make someone immortal. He managed
to capture his own and something happed where he could not release
it. He then learned that all the negatives of growing old still occurred,
and the longer he lived the less his body could keep up with the repair
work. He would get more and more problems piled up on him. By the
end of the movie he looks almost like a zombie and he walks out into
the road and two cars crush him in between. The credits rolled. Anyone
remember something like that?
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John Byrne
Imaginary X-Man
Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 114014
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| Posted: 10 February 2019 at 6:30pm | IP Logged | 14
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...scientists believe... ••• Not a phrase we should use.
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Rich Marzullo
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 13 January 2011
Location: United States
Posts: 2261
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| Posted: 10 February 2019 at 6:43pm | IP Logged | 15
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Good point.
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Steven Myers
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 10 June 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 5205
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| Posted: 10 February 2019 at 8:15pm | IP Logged | 16
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I like Michael Shermer's response to the question of life after death: "I'm all for it!"
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John Byrne
Imaginary X-Man
Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 114014
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| Posted: 10 February 2019 at 8:36pm | IP Logged | 17
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I don't believe in an afterlife, so I don't have to spend my whole life fearing hell, or fearing heaven even more. For whatever the tortures of hell, I think the boredom of heaven would be even worse.Isaac Asimov
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Bill Mimbu
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 14 April 2008
Location: United States
Posts: 6996
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| Posted: 11 February 2019 at 12:19am | IP Logged | 18
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Thomas Woods: "There was an old movie, I think British, where a scientist figured out we
each have our own death angel that comes for us."
***
THE ASPHYX (1972)
Off the top of my head, DEATH BECOMES HER (1992) comes to mind as a more lighter take on the subject...
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Bill Collins
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 26 May 2005
Location: England
Posts: 10485
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| Posted: 11 February 2019 at 1:32am | IP Logged | 19
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Paul Kimball wrote "I know it's totally illogical but I
do like to imagine a heaven for pets and I find it
comforting"
I`m with you there Paul, we lost Sam, our rescue dog a
week before Christmas. On Thursday we collected our new
rescue dog Fudge, in his honour, so wether there is a
pet heaven or not, his death wasn`t in vain.
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Philippe Negrin
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 01 August 2007
Location: France
Posts: 2252
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| Posted: 11 February 2019 at 3:27am | IP Logged | 20
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"I want to go to heaven for the weather, hell for the company !"
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Eric Sofer
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 31 January 2014
Location: United States
Posts: 2719
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| Posted: 11 February 2019 at 9:02am | IP Logged | 21
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ITEM: I'm not an expert on Heaven or Hell (being Jewish, I don't think we even have a concept of Hell), but I long assumed that if Hell is eternal torment, then Heaven is eternal pleasure. If sitting on a cloud playing a lyre s your idea of eternal pleasure, that's swell. But I know many people whose idea of eternal pleasure is to be in a city of casinos, blackjack or poker 24 hours a day, where they always win. Restaurants that constantly have an open table for them with interesting company and their favorite dish already prepared. Hot and cold running blondes and redheads available at a moment's notice. It would indeed paradise.
Until they got weary of it. I figured much the same aspect of that to Hell... no matter what the tortures, I feel that eventually, one would be accustomed to them, and could never suffer worse. It would be commonplace.
Ultimately, the "appeal" of Heaven over Hell is merely that in one, a person would share God's presence... and in the other, one couldn't. That's about the point where I concluded that this Heaven/Hell business is kinda sketchy.
ITEM: I considered that we have doctors and nurses, researchers, technicians, et. al., who have found ways to postpone death. Thanks to their efforts, we live longer on average now than we ever have.
But no one's ever made inroads on slowing down aging. Even replacement joints, eating healthy, regular exercise, and artificial body parts don't stop or slow aging... they just make it more tolerable.
Then I went back to dreaming about poker, restaurants, and hot and cold running redheads.
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Thomas Woods
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 09 June 2004
Location: United States
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| Posted: 11 February 2019 at 9:19am | IP Logged | 22
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THE ASPHYX (1972)
--
Yep, that is the one
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tho ha
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 22 January 2009
Posts: 41
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| Posted: 11 February 2019 at 2:36pm | IP Logged | 23
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Until they got weary of it. I figured much the same aspect of that to Hell... no matter what the tortures, I feel that eventually, one would be accustomed to them, and could never suffer worse. It would be commonplace.
-- That's why you need breaks during the torture:
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Steve De Young
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 01 April 2008
Location: United States
Posts: 3150
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| Posted: 11 February 2019 at 4:25pm | IP Logged | 24
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Actually, the belief in an at least vaguely hellish, shadowy underworld long precedes belief in any kind of 'heaven' in human religion. Including the Hebrew Bible/Old Testament. Everyone went to the underworld. There came to be the idea that through proper preparation (or preparation of the corpse) someone's lot down there could be made somewhat better. Likewise ritual memorials for the person could have some positive, alleviating effect. But it took millennia for that to really develop into the idea that a normal person, through living their life a certain way, would be rewarded with eternal life and happiness.
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Steven Myers
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 10 June 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 5205
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| Posted: 11 February 2019 at 10:06pm | IP Logged | 25
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I would think the religious concept that hell is literally below the ground and heaven in the sky would prove that the religions are myths. Yet I know adults who still think of heaven as people floating on clouds playing harps and all those childish tropes.
I think if there is an afterlife it would be like nothing we can imagine now. After all, we will be free of our physical shells. Just like I think that if there is a god, I doubt any of our earthly religions are close to the truth of god.
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