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David Allen Perrin
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Posted: 20 May 2019 at 2:47pm | IP Logged | 1 post reply

I was rather indifferent about the finale until Rodrigo's posts.  

Now I'm finding it more appealing and will watch it again to tonight.

Thanks, Rodrigo!

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Rodrigo castellanos
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Posted: 20 May 2019 at 3:15pm | IP Logged | 2 post reply

Thanks, Rodrigo!

Glad to be of service :) Enjoy!

Even if those ratings are accurate, its a share, not an actual number, and at least in the case of the most recent episode, is only a live viewing rating.

If I'm understanding correctly those numbers are not viewing ratings, but IMDB user ratings of how much they liked the episode in a scale from 1 to 10.

Different strokes and everything but the fans and critics reaction (whether on IMDB, Rotten Tomatoes, Metacritic, etc) points to the finale being mediocre to bad.

Does that tarnish the entire show? Definitely not, I've said it myself a few pages before. But it's not a hit, as most people didn't find it satisfying.

So now the "defense" I've been seeing today is that it was an impossible task, that there was no way to stick the landing and meet everyone's expectations.

And I could've bought that if I hadn't seen AVENGERS ENDGAME a month before. They did it. They stuck the landing of various complex storylines in a universe revered by millions of fans. Home run. So the timing also makes the GOT showrunners look bad.


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Benny Hasa
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Posted: 20 May 2019 at 4:20pm | IP Logged | 3 post reply

Posting this from Blu-ray.com.  Many valid points. 

  • Tyrion would not have found Jaime and Cersei under all the rubble we clearly saw falling in the previous episode. It provides closure for the audience, but no way did he just find them like that.
  • How did Grey Worm beat Jon Snow to Daenerys just before her speech? He was methodically executing prisoners of war moments ago.
  • Why is Jon Snow allowed to talk to Tyrion, the traitor, without some kind of guard like Grey Worm present?
  • Why does Jon Snow even try to justify Daenerys's genocide? I mean, love the girl, fine, but she just killed a million people in cold blood. That's not a salvageable situation.
  • Everything about how Drogon is handled is ridiculous. Breathing fire randomly, even at the Iron Throne, makes less sense than either killing Jon Snow or becoming submissive to the new Targaryen master. Flying off into the great horizon and not returning to Jon Snow after melting the throne (and not killing Jon Snow) is bonkers.
  • The Dothraki, which we clearly see before Daenerys's speech, would have immediately followed their new Khal, Jon Snow, after he killed the Khaleesi. That's their culture. They would not have allowed the Unsullied to capture Jon Snow, and as such Grey Worm would not have time for yelling at Tyrion.
  • Water bottles. Water bottles everywhere.
  • Tyrion not nominating Jon Snow to be king is his worst mistake ever. Jon Snow is demonstrably honest, loyal, and is willing to make hard decisions even if it breaks his heart. Bran is a dispassionate sociopath who could be convinced through cold hard logic to murder plenty of people under the right circumstances.
  • Failing Jon Snow, Sansa Stark is the next obvious choice. Really, all of the Starks other than Bran have better stories than his, despite Tyrion's speech.
  • Bran's first act as king is to undermine the stability of his kingdom by granting an unreasonable request to separate the North from Westeros. There's nothing after that point keeping any other part of the kingdom intact, as they could just say, "Well, we don't want to kneel either. We've been through some hard stuff too." Everyone accepts this division of the kingdom at just a mere nod of the head? Nobody else wants to separate? Why does King's Landing still hold any power now that all of its populace evaporated due to sudden genocide?
  • After Grey Worm leaves, there's no reason why Jon Snow has to leave and/or why he couldn't be king. Seriously. Everybody other than the Unsullied has a very good reason to love and/or follow Jon Snow.
  • If Bran has been secretly plotting this whole time ("Why do you think I came all the way here?") to be king, why then do we get literally zero explanation from the show's creators over its entire existence as to his motivation? Why does he want to be king at all? Why even accept?
  • Bronn as master of Highgarden and master of Coin makes zero sense other than to save Tyrion. Everybody just goes along with this long-term? I can't imagine everybody in Highgarden just letting Bronn run things in perpetuity.
  • What happened with the Children of the Forest? Are they linked to Bran somehow? Why did any of the multitude of things the show previously built up matter at all now that we just rushed to an illogical conclusion?
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    Rick Senger
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    Posted: 20 May 2019 at 4:40pm | IP Logged | 4 post reply

    IMDB votes are opened up at any time after the show airs and will continue pouring in for years to come.  They do not represent any one moment in time but a cross section that becomes more representational over time (particularly with more votes).  Initial voters tend to be the more passionate ones and I would note the cross section of votes so far seem to run between either really loved it or really hated it. 

    I guess I'm in the middle.  It hit some of the broad strokes it needed to (Dany had to die, Jon had to do it and he then had to be exiled), but for the final episode somehow the execution felt thin and uninspired overall. 

    My favorite moment was the animated dragon's reaction to Dany's murder, which was both heartbreaking and terrifying.  Great stuff and cool to have the throne melted down (and the wheel broken) by a dragon since it was a dragon who originally melted the materials down to create it hundreds of years earlier. 

    Hard to put my finger on why, but I didn't like the climactic gathering to decide the next King.  Bran's selection was certainly surprising so I give them kudos for balls picking arguably one of the more passive and vulnerable characters in the entire show's run.   But he also felt like an unlikely and somehow unsatisfying choice.

    Bran may not have been "born to be a king" but other than his harrowing time out in the frozen wasteland (where he did little but burden his companions and not listen to Max Von Sydow), he has lived a life largely removed from contact with the "real world" and its day to day realities, so Tyrion's proclamation doesn't quite ring true.  Certainly sheltered kings can be carry out the business of state successfully but Bran seems a cold and dispassionate fish who doesn't relate to others at all.  He might make and excellent analyst / adviser but he doesn't seem like "King material" to me.

    He has observed and sifted through much information as the Three Eyed Raven but there is a difference between the indirectness of watching television versus actively going out in the world, interacting with people and experiencing life and its consequences firsthand.  He's not shallow or a coward (far from it) and it's possible he could wind up being one of the most balanced and fair-minded choices possible.  He certainly demonstrated the long view and compassion in his interaction with Jamie.   It could work out. 

    But somehow I don't get a sense of the breadth of experience or anything approaching passion from him.  Even though he's been around the periphery, I feel like I don't really know him (he barely talks and he wasn't even in the show for a season.)  More to the point, as one of the most deeply introspective, walled-off and reserved nerds in the show it's hard to see the Seven Kingdoms rallying behind Bran the Broken.  Besides Sansa, it seems like none of the major players from the deciding group has even had that much time with Bran to know him well enough to entrust him with that level of power.  Tyrion knows him some (but he betrayed the Queen) and Jon certainly knows him (but he murdered the Queen).

    The showrunners painted themselves into a corner once it became clear that neither Dany nor Jon could really be ruler.   I get that Aria wouldn't want the crown and Tyrion would be too problematic, but Sansa certainly seems wise enough though was perhaps too obvious a choice.  Still, Bran just doesn't feel like the right choice for me.
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    Steve De Young
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    Posted: 20 May 2019 at 4:58pm | IP Logged | 5 post reply

    Benny, people who nitpick plot holes like that don’t understand how fiction works.  So their ‘opinions’ are irrelevant to everything.  That’s not how literary and film criticism work.
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    Mike Benson
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    Posted: 20 May 2019 at 5:33pm | IP Logged | 6 post reply

    Same show. The same show that had Sansa and Arya's "brother" fall in love with this woman and convinced everyone to fight for her. The guy who was offered a very privileged position in the new government that would surely prevent his sisters and his home to be "just killed" on a whim. Same freakin' show.

    ******

    If you think any of that would keep someone safe, even on a “whim,” you have been watching a different show.  

    I get the nerd rage. It was inevitable once the show became popular, given the nature of the internet.  

    And I get that people are saddened by Dany’s ending.  It was incredibly tragic.  But anyone who thinks her behavior was out of left field hasn’t been paying attention.  As someone, I believe Tyrion, poInts out, it just seemed different when she was doing these things far away, to foreign people. 




    Edited by Mike Benson on 20 May 2019 at 5:44pm
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    Rodrigo castellanos
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    Posted: 20 May 2019 at 5:51pm | IP Logged | 7 post reply

    - "You've been watching a different show"

    - "Mmm, but the vast majority of professional critics agree with ME, though..."

    Been dying to use this meme :D
    Humor, people. If you loved it that's great, I envy you. Wish I could've.

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    Benny Hasa
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    Posted: 20 May 2019 at 6:01pm | IP Logged | 8 post reply

    Benny, people who nitpick plot holes like that don’t understand how fiction works.  So their ‘opinions’ are irrelevant to everything.  That’s not how literary and film criticism work.

    ***

    Nope. 
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    Benny Hasa
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    Posted: 20 May 2019 at 6:03pm | IP Logged | 9 post reply

    At the end of the day, everyone is entitled to their opinions and HOPEFULLY people can be respectful to those opinions especially in regard to works of fiction. 

    At the end of the day,  I thought this season was an utter mess on numerous levels.  It had its moments, but at the end of the day it felt like I was watching a mess of two writers who didn't know how to end the damn thing.  A true shame as there was so much potential to this season. 

    If you loved it, great.  If you were in the middle, great.  If you hated it, great. Everyone is going to feel different about it, but at least people are passionate enough to talk about it. 
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    Mike Benson
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    Posted: 20 May 2019 at 6:06pm | IP Logged | 10 post reply

    Yeah, I’m going to bow out of any discussion when something like “the vast majority of professional critics agree with me” gets thrown out.  
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    Mike Benson
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    Posted: 20 May 2019 at 6:09pm | IP Logged | 11 post reply

    At the end of the day, everyone is entitled to their opinions and HOPEFULLY people can be respectful to those opinions especially in regard to works of fiction. 

    At the end of the day,  I thought this season was an utter mess on numerous levels.  It had its moments, but at the end of the day it felt like I was watching a mess of two writers who didn't know how to end the damn thing.  A true shame as there was so much potential to this season. 

    If you loved it, great.  If you were in the middle, great.  If you hated it, great. Everyone is going to feel different about it, but at least people are passionate enough to talk about it. 

    *******

    Maybe the writers didn’t say “at the end of the day” quite enough during the season?
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    Michael Roberts
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    Posted: 20 May 2019 at 6:19pm | IP Logged | 12 post reply

    Yeah, I’m going to bow out of any discussion when something like “the vast majority of professional critics agree with me” gets thrown out.  

    -----

    The professional critics don't even agree with each other. Even among those who were disappointed, they don't agree with what they were disappointed in. Trying to claim that the professional critics agree with a stance is confirmation bias at best and delusional at worst.
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