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Rodrigo castellanos
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Posted: 20 May 2019 at 6:22pm | IP Logged | 1 post reply

Yeah, Im going to bow out of any discussion when something like the vast majority of professional critics agree with me gets thrown out.  

Yeah, both that phrase and "You've been watching a different show" are incredibly condescending. That's why that particular meme was used.

It's a joke.

But you didn't get it. Of course you didn't.
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Michael Roberts
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Posted: 20 May 2019 at 6:36pm | IP Logged | 2 post reply

Yeah, both that phrase and "You've been watching a different show" are incredibly condescending. That's why that particular meme was used.

It's a joke.

But you didn't get it. Of course you didn't.

-----

What's ironic is that you are using a meme of Dany's passive-aggressive reaction to Sansa's inquiry about her intentions of the North in a discussion where you claim that Dany was considering it.
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Conrad Teves
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Posted: 20 May 2019 at 7:54pm | IP Logged | 3 post reply

I think there's an explanation for the polarized reaction to Dany's turn. Some were viewing Dany with their heart and their hope instead of wary skepticism, which does not in any way speak ill of them. Furthermore, you clearly were supposed to like (or love) Dany. Characters don't just "happen" to be likable, they're designed that way. Reinforce this impression with other characters you like seeing her with their heart and their hope, e.g., Tyrion and Jon. I think it's a major point that literally no one who wanted to rule was 100% good or evil, but the mere coveting of the power whether by ambition (Littlefinger) or by perceived right or piety (High Sparrow) was in and of itself hazardous for everyone caught in their way.
The Long Night could have come from the Night King, or something very similar from Dany.  So if you wish to give weight to the Azor Ahai prophecy, the Prince who was Promised was Jon, and that he did kill his beloved, and did remove her flaming sword (Drogon).  But of course (as is intentional), prophesies are blurry things, and you can map all sorts of stuff on to them. There were characters who tried to force the prophecies to be real (e.g., Melisandre and Rhaegar), and in the end they served but not how they expected.
In Deep Geek (as usual) has a nice take: Link
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Steve De Young
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Posted: 21 May 2019 at 8:11am | IP Logged | 4 post reply

I have no issue with people who didn't like the ending.  There were bits in the last season I didn't care for.  There was a lot of season 7 that I didn't care for.  I have several friends who never liked the show at all to begin with.  Any opinion you want to have is fine of this show, or any other film, show, book, comic, etc.

Where I object is when people are so insecure in their opinion that they feel the need to argue, even against evidence, that something is a flop because they don't like it, or that everyone really agrees with them and nobody likes it, or sit around trying to nitpick plotholes to argue that it is objectively bad.

If you didn't like it, great.  If you want to describe what didn't work for you, great.  When you try to say that people with other opinions of it either don't exist or are objectively wrong, that's just insecurity in the value of your own thoughts.
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Petter Myhr Ness
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Posted: 21 May 2019 at 9:05am | IP Logged | 5 post reply

I think the last two episodes were very strong, though I certainly have issues with all the hoops they had to jump through to get there. This season, in particular, would have benefited from a few more episodes to build up the resolutions to all the character arcs. 

That said, I have no issues with where everybody ended up, both the dead and survivors. The scene with Jon and Daenarys was heartbreaking, but felt natural. 

And for the nitpickers: get a life! If you want an ending more suited to your liking, go write your own stuff. 
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Brian Miller
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Posted: 21 May 2019 at 11:04am | IP Logged | 6 post reply

It ended great. All the living Starks got exactly what they wanted. 
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Dave Phelps
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Posted: 21 May 2019 at 5:42pm | IP Logged | 7 post reply

 Rodrigo Castellanos wrote:
They were irrelevant in the way they could've been replaced with any other non-supernatural threat. Why introduce a zombie frozen army that comes out of nowhere and then have them defeated offhandedly and never explain who they were or why did they exist? All the "Winter is Coming", the prophecies... amounted to basically nothing. It ended being another "Mad King" storyline, one that had already been told without zombies being necessary.


I'll agree with you on this one. I guess you could argue that it set up a true "unifying threat" and gave the series an opportunity to subvert expectations by it ending up almost as a "side gig" before getting back to real business (toppling Cersei). That said, as exciting as the Battle of Winterfell was, at the end I had a definite sense of "wait - is that it?" Hoping I feel differently when I get around to watching the whole thing all together.


 QUOTE:
LOTS of supposition there. Remember this is the woman Jon loved. The same woman that constantly approached Sansa in order to get along. She would've "just killed them"? Really? Cause she's "loco"? I get that the show was trying to sell that, but based on the character I've seen on screen for seven seasons I'm not buying it in a million years.


Dany's whole thing on the show has been "bend the knee or die." If you're with her, she's got your back. If you're against her... not so much. By the time Dany met Sansa, Jon had ceded the North to her. If Sansa was to turn around and declare independance, Dany would have seen that as a betrayal and reacted accordingly.

YMMV (and clearly does based on a later comment I snipped), but I saw the "let's be friends" sequences as Dany trying really hard to make peace with Sansa because she didn't want to upset Jon by killing his sister.


 QUOTE:
No he didn't. Apart form the ludicrous reasoning that a dragon could understand the symbolic nature of a metal chair, burning it changed nothing. There's still a King, he has the same kind of inept advisors that the previous kings had, and now there are six kingdoms instead of seven (Drogon would've known that was going to happen? They should make HIM King then). No wheels being broken at all.


Agreed. Changing the rules of succession is nice, but hardly "breaking the wheel." OTOH, it was hard to take Dany's claims that she was trying to do that seriously, either. She may have wanted to be a good Queen, but there was never any doubt in her mind that she was the Rightful Ruler, which strikes me as fairly wheelish.


 QUOTE:
Still, in life and the coherent show this used to be you don't get a third opportunity after massively screwing up including the murder of Tywin and the treason to Dany. No matter how much people like you.


Given Dany's actions at King's Landing and talk of "continuing to liberate", it's hard to believe that most of the people there other than those who said something (Grey Worm, Yera) would've had much of an issue with "treason to Dany."


 QUOTE:
While we're on the subject of Jon, I would like to ask the Lord of Light a question: hey, why did you RETURN THIS GUY FROM THE DEAD, for it to be revealed to him that he's actually the rightful heir to the throne by blood?

Answer: Oh, that? So that he can fulfill his glorious destiny of going back to where he came from with his wildling friends and pet his dog, of course! Mysterious ways, y'all!


I figured the reason he was returned from the dead was because he was the one who could unify the living sufficiently to defeat the Night King.
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Dave Phelps
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Posted: 21 May 2019 at 6:11pm | IP Logged | 8 post reply

I was generally okay with the finale. At least where it left the characters. Some of the paths there were a little awkward, though. I'll agree with those saying more episodes would've helped.

That said, the only two things that came across as odd to me were:

#1 Drogon burning the iron throne - maybe as collateral damage while taking down the whole castle to serve as a funeral pyre for his Mother (which admittedly would be a little tricky, all things considered... :-) ), but as a specific target for his rage, it seemed weird. "I'm upset you killed her Jon, but I understand that it was really her ambition that brought us to this point..." If you don't want him to kill Jon, mass destruction and speedy feet might have been better,

#2 King Bran - I see a pretty solid resume for getting appointed the next Master of Whisperers, but King? Could have used a little more set-up. The problem I see is that the only one really groomed for leadership amongst the available options was Sansa, but given her whole "the North should be independent" stance it would have been off for her to be "oh, well if I'm in charge of everything I guess that's okay."

Honorable mention - the Dothraki just disappearing between scenes.
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Sebastien Herve
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Posted: 22 May 2019 at 2:02pm | IP Logged | 9 post reply

Don't you find many similarities between the fate of Daeneris and Dark Phoenix ?
Huge powers
Destruction of a city (planet)
Perverted by her powers
And the tragic final conclusion with the male heroe ?
(surely many similarities with the other characters, too)
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Matt Hawes
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Posted: 22 May 2019 at 4:20pm | IP Logged | 10 post reply

I was more or less okay with the season, but admittedly the finale was a letdown. In fact, I was more forgiving of the flaws in earlier episodes this season as I was trying to keep faith that the final episode would tie everything together satisfactorily. That didn't really happen. It's not the worst finale of all-time, but it was a disappointment for me.

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Brian Floyd
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Posted: 22 May 2019 at 5:34pm | IP Logged | 11 post reply

Some major deception there near the end:

1. Jon isn't being punished. There's no more Night's Watch, so the no wife or kids bit doesn't mean anything. The Wildlings are his friends, so he's probably right where he wants to be. Which leads to....

2. The Unsullied aren't being rewarded, but being sent off to a horrible death. I forget which season it was mentioned in, but the land they're going to is uninhabited due to butterflies that carry a nasty, painful disease. Go rot, Greyworm. You deserve it. Them dead or at least whittled down, there's nothing stopping Jon from returning....if he wants to.

3. They may not be getting a new king for centuries. The previous whatever Bran is now lived a long time. 


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Christopher Frost
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Posted: 22 May 2019 at 8:39pm | IP Logged | 12 post reply

With regards to the Unsullied, their destination is the island Missendei came from.
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