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Rich Johnston
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 04 February 2019
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 23
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| Posted: 29 April 2019 at 5:28am | IP Logged | 1
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>It transcends super-genius. It’s akin to Einstein coming up with Relativity after growing up alone on a desert island.
I think it's more like Einstein coming up with the theory of Relativity (and ofr the photoelectric effect for which he won the Nobel) when he failed the entrance examinations to get into the Federal Polytechnic School in Zurich.
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
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| Posted: 29 April 2019 at 6:31am | IP Logged | 2
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While I've cited the praise the De Vere received from some of his contemporaries, it's also worth noting that many modern critics haven't been terribly impressed by De Vere's writing. •• Critics in the Stratford camp. Gosh! --------------- Amusingly, for all the claims by some Oxfordian's couldn't have taken credit for the plays due to his noble status, it may have been the case that he was only afforded praise because of his noble status and that he was never actually a particularly talented writer. •• Yes, I'm sure Looney was overwhelmed by the royal credentials of a long dead peer.
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Eric Ladd
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 August 2004
Location: Canada
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| Posted: 29 April 2019 at 8:50am | IP Logged | 3
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There is a very nice book by Jonathan Bate and Eric Rasmussen called, "William Shakespeare and Others: Collaborative Plays" that deals with the Apocrypha. There is a 90 pages essay by Will Sharpe on the subject of authorship and attribution of the plays. I'm curious to know if viewing the author as a collaborator changes or augments anyone's viewpoint? We have to consider what constitutes collaboration, but clearly a person or perhaps group of people contributed opinion and/or verse that can be attributed to Shakespeare. Anyway, I wanted to point out another possible source for information regarding authorship that some of you might not be aware of.
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Eric Ladd
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 August 2004
Location: Canada
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| Posted: 29 April 2019 at 8:56am | IP Logged | 4
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Here is an article by one of the associate editors of the book, Peter Kirwan.
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Steven Brake
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 01 January 2016
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| Posted: 29 April 2019 at 11:35am | IP Logged | 5
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@JB:
Critics in the Stratford camp. Gosh!
------------------------------------------------------------ --
C.S Lewis, who wasn't impressed by De Vere's writing, also wasn't "in the Stratford camp". Like many of his peers, he basically thought English Literature stopped in the Medieval Period.
Tolkien, Lewis's great friend and rival, was of course actively hostile to Shakespeare! I'm not sure if he ever expressed any views with regards to the Authorship question, though.
------------------------------------------------------------
Yes, I'm sure Looney was overwhelmed by the royal credentials of a long dead peer.
------------------------------------------------------------ -
Given Looney's insistence upon the hierarchical nature of society and avowed dislike of democracy, it's probable that he was more influenced by royal credentials than you've allowed. After all, much of the Oxfordian position is that a mere commoner could not possibly have written Shakespeare's, or "Shakespeare's", plays!
One oughtn't to confuse snobbery with literary criticism - an accusation often, if perhaps unfairly, thrown at Oxfordians - and literary criticism can of course be very subjective, but if the Oxford-educated Lewis judges De Vere to be a poor or mediocre writer, and the largely self-educated Looney thinks him to be a genius, the judgement of the former is probably the sounder.
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Steven Brake
Byrne Robotics Member
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| Posted: 29 April 2019 at 11:49am | IP Logged | 6
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@Eric Ladd:I'm curious to know if viewing the author as a collaborator changes or augments anyone's viewpoint?-------------------------------------------------- ----------Some devout Stratfordians strongly resist the notion of collaboration, seeing it as the start of an attack upon Shakespeare's genius, subtly and gradually eroding it until he's just one writer among many rather than a colossus standing over all.
However, it is gradually being conceded that as collaboration was the standard practice in writing, or co-writing, plays, there's no reason that he should have been exempt. As I've noted elsewhere, Marlowe's role as co-author of the Henry VI plays and Richard III has been pretty much accepted. Shakespeare's collaborations with Beaumont and Fletcher are also largely accepted, and the co-authorship by Thomas Middleton of several plays - including Macbeth - is constantly garnering more interest.
The quick answer, I suppose - and perhaps one that I should have begun with from the outset! - is that acknowledging collaboration also means recognising that the plays cannot, or can't necessarily, be interpreted biographically. Acknowledging that they're the products of more than one mind necessarily changes how they are understood.
For the Oxfordians, collaboration is disastrous, as their case is dependent on the plays being written by De Vere alone and the credit for them, through accident or connivance, being ascribed to William of Stratford. If collaboration is acknowledged, this means that not only did De Vere keep quiet while the Warwickshire lad took the credit for his work, but his fellow co-author, or even co-authors, somehow felt obliged to do so too.
Edited by Steven Brake on 29 April 2019 at 12:02pm
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Steven Brake
Byrne Robotics Member
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| Posted: 14 May 2019 at 10:10am | IP Logged | 7
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Another theory! :)
https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2019/06/who-is- shakespeare-emilia-bassano/588076/
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