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Matt Hawes
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Posted: 09 May 2019 at 1:23pm | IP Logged | 1 post reply

 Oliver Denker wrote:
...I wasn't aware of Ed Hannigan's involvement in the FF's cover designs. There you go, always something new to learn and from a direction I've never suspected...

It wasn't just FF. Ed Hannigan was the designer of many, if not most of the Marvel covers of that period, in the early 1980s.

About that... was there a regular cover designer before Ed, like maybe John Romita? And after Ed, did/does Marvel employ a regular cover designer?

I recall Carmine Infantino designed a number of covers over at DC.

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John Byrne
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Posted: 09 May 2019 at 1:42pm | IP Logged | 2 post reply

Michael Golden designed covers for a while.
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Nathan Greno
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Posted: 09 May 2019 at 1:52pm | IP Logged | 3 post reply

Wondering about the order to all of this obviously, Ed (or whoever) couldnt design covers until he know the interior story. Were the covers typically drawn after the interiors were finished? 

From what I understand, these days the covers need to done months in advance for PREVIEWS. Im thinking the process may have changed over the years... maybe? 

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Oliver Denker
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Posted: 09 May 2019 at 2:03pm | IP Logged | 4 post reply


 Matt Hayes wrote:
...About that... was there a regular cover designer before Ed,...


Marie Severin did an awful lot of cover designs before Ed.
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Eric Ladd
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Posted: 09 May 2019 at 2:06pm | IP Logged | 5 post reply

Interestingly, the process of finishing the cover art many months in advance of the publication date for PREVIEWS isn't an issue if the artistic team has several issues in the can and isn't missing the deadline. I wonder just how many books are operating with 1 or 2 months lead time? Perhaps many cover designs were done with only the plot known. JB, what is the least amount of info you have received to do a cover on a book where you didn't do any interior art?
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Eric Jansen
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Posted: 09 May 2019 at 3:57pm | IP Logged | 6 post reply

I remember reading that Jim Starlin was doing a lot of cover layouts for Marvel before he started writing & drawing issues.
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John Byrne
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Posted: 09 May 2019 at 4:41pm | IP Logged | 7 post reply

Covers were typically done after the interiors at Marvel, while DC often did the cover first, then built a story around it.

The DSM, with its demand for promotional material three months in advance, pretty much wrecked that.

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Rebecca Jansen
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Posted: 09 May 2019 at 5:04pm | IP Logged | 8 post reply

Gil Kane did some great cover designs, although sometimes a bit generic, maybe they were for use as needed  at times? I think he did just the layouts for a little in the early '70s at Marvel too. I remember some Kirby Marvel covers from the middle '70s finished by Adkins or others for comics he didn't work on the interiors, a couple of The Avengers ones are favorites. The problem with Golden covers (and Bill Sienkiewicz later) is so often they didn't remotely match the inside style, as a young reader they sort of confused me whereas a Romita, Cockrum, Byrne or Milgrom usually fit right in.


Edited by Rebecca Jansen on 09 May 2019 at 5:05pm
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Nathan Greno
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Posted: 09 May 2019 at 9:23pm | IP Logged | 9 post reply


As a kid, I RARELY had the extra cash to buy a comic ONLY for it's cover. Those were some rough days for me at the spinner rack -- "Look at this awesome GIJOE cover by John Byrne... BUT I DON'T READ GIJOE!!!!"

Sometimes the planets would align -- JB would draw a fill-in cover for a comic I was already collecting (THANK YOU, ROM!)
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Peter Martin
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Posted: 09 May 2019 at 9:56pm | IP Logged | 10 post reply

In my comic collecting/reading days, I much preferred for the interior artist to do the cover as well. For example, Brian Bolland used to do some fantastic covers for Animal Man, but then it always meant the interior art somehow seemed inferior (with all due respect to whoever did the heavy lifting of drawing all those interior pages).

I preferred it if what you saw on the cover was what you were gonna get inside.

Interesting to learn that Ed Hannigan had a hand in some of those FF covers, particularly FF244. Great cover (awesome splash once you open it as well!)



Edited by Peter Martin on 09 May 2019 at 9:56pm
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Eric Jansen
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Posted: 10 May 2019 at 1:24am | IP Logged | 11 post reply

I like painted covers, but I don't usually care for painted interiors.  The Marvel magazines of the 70's and 80's (and Will Eisner's SPIRIT magazine) were pretty much a dream for me.  Sometimes though, painted covers on the monthly comics seemed a bit like overkill.

Some of my favorite covers are drawn fully by Hannigan--I'd like to know which of his layouts I also love.

Was it just one artist laying out the covers for all the books for certain periods?  I'd really like to know who was the cover guy for each period.  I think it sort of went like this:

KIRBY--Most of the 60's
ROMITA--Late 60's/Early 70's
KANE--Early 70's?
STARLIN--Mid-70's?
KANE--Did Kane come back after Starlin?
HANNIGAN--Late 70's/early 80's

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Eric White
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Posted: 10 May 2019 at 3:24am | IP Logged | 12 post reply

Dave Cockrum did some cover layouts for Marvel in the 70's too.
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John Popa
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Posted: 10 May 2019 at 1:47pm | IP Logged | 13 post reply

I believe Marie Severin frequently did cover layouts as part of her tenure at Marvel.
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John Byrne
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Posted: 10 May 2019 at 2:18pm | IP Logged | 14 post reply

I dont recall Marie doing cover sketches, but that could be before my time.
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Eric White
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Posted: 10 May 2019 at 5:54pm | IP Logged | 15 post reply

Late 60's and into the early 70's Marie did lots of cover layouts. 
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Nathan Greno
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Posted: 10 May 2019 at 6:09pm | IP Logged | 16 post reply

Apparently, the same guy on FB is about to drop a BIG revelation concerning the history of The Death of Phoenix... something we arent aware of here in the US. Hes leading up to the big reveal over the next few days.

I find all of this interesting/amusing.

Today he posted this... 

 

FACT: THE DARK PHOENIX SAGA was fully plotted as a FOUR issue arc during Roger Stern editorship.

In the handwritten list by Byrne with the plans for X-Men from #123 till #150, the Dark Phoenix Saga was already four issues long (#131-134), but it was unknown in USA till now that the four plots survived. They were produced while Stern was the editor in spite that his last issue was #131. Originally, the Saga comprised issues 132-135, and it ended with Phoenix DYING in #135.

Yes, you read well, she DIED at the end, but I'll cover it in a few days.

The differences of number of issue between the list and the plots happened because the Dazzler issue (#130) was added to the title by Shooter. So instead of covering #131-134, it covered #132-135.

Below you'll find the first part of the plot of #133. Pay attention to the handwritten note above by Claremont (csc) because he wrote the plot intended for #133 and 134 as a single plot, so it had to be split in two. Notice that Stern okayed #132 and 133, but #131 was his last issue.

If you compare Claremont's plots with the printed comics you'll discover many differences. That's the fascinating part of diving in these plots, because you can discover Byrne's artistic decisions, and sometimes not so artistic.

In the 'Dark Phoenix Tapes' section of 'Phoenix, the Untold Story', Shooter forgot that it was plotted during Stern tenure, this is why he recalled having a dinner with Salicrup and Claremont, but it was with Stern. This happened just FOUR years later, imagine remembering four DECADES ago. But who can blame them? Not me, I can't recall what I ate yesterday.



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Jason K Fulton
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Posted: 10 May 2019 at 7:20pm | IP Logged | 17 post reply

Nathan -

Completely unrelated, but there are a couple Secret Origins Annual / Doom Patrol JB pages up on ebay at the moment. I can't remember the other recent thread where you mentioned owning a few of the pages from the issue.
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John Byrne
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Posted: 10 May 2019 at 7:36pm | IP Logged | 18 post reply

Well... sometimes what you see is NOT what you get.

Where does he get the idea Phoenix died in 135?

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Nathan Greno
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Posted: 11 May 2019 at 11:03am | IP Logged | 19 post reply

Thanks, Jason!! 
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Nathan Greno
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Posted: 11 May 2019 at 11:46am | IP Logged | 20 post reply

JB: Where does he get the idea Phoenix died in 135?

-

I guess he has old notes that will reveal the original plan to kill her in issue #135? He keeps promising all of our minds will be blown with the major revelations he has coming over the next few days.

Today, he posted this

While you assimilate the news of yesterday, today is the turn of a fascinating document that went off the radar when it got published for the first time in the Modern Masters volume focused on Byrne: The NOTES that Byrne took of #137 while speaking at phone with Claremont, and it features the original ending.

This doesn't mean that any of them supplied the ideas, only they know that. Likely Claremont also took similar notes at the another end of the phone while/just after speaking, and he used them to develop and type a plot.

Byrne's notes covered two pages, and they are two sides of the same sheet. You can guess that for the scribbles Byrne drew at the borders while speaking. Ink shows at the another side. Both sides are included in the mag.

It's very interesting to compare the notes with the published comic, because there are minor differences that show again the creative process. Unfortunately, the mag didn't pay enough attention to that.

Sometimes the information is out there, but it's necessary to join the dots.




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John Byrne
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Posted: 11 May 2019 at 11:51am | IP Logged | 21 post reply

The plan was for Dark Phoenix to become a recurring villain. Killing her in 135 would have put a considerable crimp in that!
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Nathan Greno
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Posted: 11 May 2019 at 12:21pm | IP Logged | 22 post reply

I guess I made him upset. He wrote this to me: 

"Old notes"? Seriously, Nathan Greno? I have the complete PLOTS, no notes.

So I guess hell be posting old Claremont plots that will reveal the original plan for all of this including the original plan to kill Phoenix. Im interested in seeing what he has... but Im not sure how it will blow our minds. I guess well see. Exciting times. 
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Michael Roberts
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Posted: 11 May 2019 at 1:36pm | IP Logged | 23 post reply

but Im not sure how it will blow our minds.


It wont until he shows you how to join the dots. Then BOOM!
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Eric Ladd
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Posted: 11 May 2019 at 3:44pm | IP Logged | 24 post reply

Mr. Picture by Numbers sounds like tons o' fun. /eyeroll
I don't think his dot connecting is going to reveal anything meaningful. You may have hit the nail on the head initially, Nathan, when you questioned what motive there was to avoid the truth? Going through old interviews and not allowing that plots, ideas, etc. change right up to the scripting of a comic book prior to publishing seems narrow minded.
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Eric Ladd
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Posted: 11 May 2019 at 3:49pm | IP Logged | 25 post reply

I asked Ed Hannigan about his duties going cover design at Marvel and DC. Here is the exchange:

Me, "I know that Mr. Hannigan designed many covers for both Marvel and DC, but I was curious to know if he took over that position at either company from another artist and if so who?"

Ed, "My best recollection is, it was a new position at Marvel, created for me. When I went to DC they made it an official position, I believe.
Dave Cockrum took it over after I left."
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