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Eric White
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Joined: 17 October 2006
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Posted: 10 May 2019 at 3:24am | IP Logged | 1 post reply

Dave Cockrum did some cover layouts for Marvel in the 70's too.
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John Popa
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Posted: 10 May 2019 at 1:47pm | IP Logged | 2 post reply

I believe Marie Severin frequently did cover layouts as part of her tenure at Marvel.
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John Byrne
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Posted: 10 May 2019 at 2:18pm | IP Logged | 3 post reply

I dont recall Marie doing cover sketches, but that could be before my time.
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Eric White
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Posted: 10 May 2019 at 5:54pm | IP Logged | 4 post reply

Late 60's and into the early 70's Marie did lots of cover layouts. 
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Nathan Greno
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Posted: 10 May 2019 at 6:09pm | IP Logged | 5 post reply

Apparently, the same guy on FB is about to drop a BIG revelation concerning the history of The Death of Phoenix... something we arent aware of here in the US. Hes leading up to the big reveal over the next few days.

I find all of this interesting/amusing.

Today he posted this... 

 

FACT: THE DARK PHOENIX SAGA was fully plotted as a FOUR issue arc during Roger Stern editorship.

In the handwritten list by Byrne with the plans for X-Men from #123 till #150, the Dark Phoenix Saga was already four issues long (#131-134), but it was unknown in USA till now that the four plots survived. They were produced while Stern was the editor in spite that his last issue was #131. Originally, the Saga comprised issues 132-135, and it ended with Phoenix DYING in #135.

Yes, you read well, she DIED at the end, but I'll cover it in a few days.

The differences of number of issue between the list and the plots happened because the Dazzler issue (#130) was added to the title by Shooter. So instead of covering #131-134, it covered #132-135.

Below you'll find the first part of the plot of #133. Pay attention to the handwritten note above by Claremont (csc) because he wrote the plot intended for #133 and 134 as a single plot, so it had to be split in two. Notice that Stern okayed #132 and 133, but #131 was his last issue.

If you compare Claremont's plots with the printed comics you'll discover many differences. That's the fascinating part of diving in these plots, because you can discover Byrne's artistic decisions, and sometimes not so artistic.

In the 'Dark Phoenix Tapes' section of 'Phoenix, the Untold Story', Shooter forgot that it was plotted during Stern tenure, this is why he recalled having a dinner with Salicrup and Claremont, but it was with Stern. This happened just FOUR years later, imagine remembering four DECADES ago. But who can blame them? Not me, I can't recall what I ate yesterday.



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Jason K Fulton
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Posted: 10 May 2019 at 7:20pm | IP Logged | 6 post reply

Nathan -

Completely unrelated, but there are a couple Secret Origins Annual / Doom Patrol JB pages up on ebay at the moment. I can't remember the other recent thread where you mentioned owning a few of the pages from the issue.
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John Byrne
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Posted: 10 May 2019 at 7:36pm | IP Logged | 7 post reply

Well... sometimes what you see is NOT what you get.

Where does he get the idea Phoenix died in 135?

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Nathan Greno
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Posted: 11 May 2019 at 11:03am | IP Logged | 8 post reply

Thanks, Jason!! 
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Nathan Greno
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Posted: 11 May 2019 at 11:46am | IP Logged | 9 post reply

JB: Where does he get the idea Phoenix died in 135?

-

I guess he has old notes that will reveal the original plan to kill her in issue #135? He keeps promising all of our minds will be blown with the major revelations he has coming over the next few days.

Today, he posted this

While you assimilate the news of yesterday, today is the turn of a fascinating document that went off the radar when it got published for the first time in the Modern Masters volume focused on Byrne: The NOTES that Byrne took of #137 while speaking at phone with Claremont, and it features the original ending.

This doesn't mean that any of them supplied the ideas, only they know that. Likely Claremont also took similar notes at the another end of the phone while/just after speaking, and he used them to develop and type a plot.

Byrne's notes covered two pages, and they are two sides of the same sheet. You can guess that for the scribbles Byrne drew at the borders while speaking. Ink shows at the another side. Both sides are included in the mag.

It's very interesting to compare the notes with the published comic, because there are minor differences that show again the creative process. Unfortunately, the mag didn't pay enough attention to that.

Sometimes the information is out there, but it's necessary to join the dots.




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John Byrne
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Posted: 11 May 2019 at 11:51am | IP Logged | 10 post reply

The plan was for Dark Phoenix to become a recurring villain. Killing her in 135 would have put a considerable crimp in that!
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Nathan Greno
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Posted: 11 May 2019 at 12:21pm | IP Logged | 11 post reply

I guess I made him upset. He wrote this to me: 

"Old notes"? Seriously, Nathan Greno? I have the complete PLOTS, no notes.

So I guess hell be posting old Claremont plots that will reveal the original plan for all of this including the original plan to kill Phoenix. Im interested in seeing what he has... but Im not sure how it will blow our minds. I guess well see. Exciting times. 
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Michael Roberts
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Posted: 11 May 2019 at 1:36pm | IP Logged | 12 post reply

but Im not sure how it will blow our minds.


It wont until he shows you how to join the dots. Then BOOM!
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