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Koroush Ghazi
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Joined: 25 October 2009
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Posted: 26 May 2019 at 3:49pm | IP Logged | 1 post reply

 Paul Buchanan wrote:
I think it's safe to say Trump support is around 50% of the country (give or take). But whatever his support is it's no where near reflected on the JBF. Wonder why?


Again, please don't let facts get in the way of your ability to exaggerate or outright lie in order to suit your agenda.

From the aggregated results shown here, Trump has a 53.9% disapproval rating, with only 41.2% approving. The top-rated polls place his approval rating closer to 40%.

But more importantly, averages don't reflect the composition of this forum, with more mature and seemingly more educated (present company excepted) people posting here, who aren't as easily suckered in by a demagogue who has been proven to lie approximately 80% of the time.

Not to mention the numerous analyses by subject matter experts, from legal to scientific, that repeatedly highlight the major harm this President is doing.

If the entire basis of your argument boils down to "but a lot of people like Trump", then sure, a lot of people like Trump. A lot of people also liked slavery. A lot of people are often ignorant and barbarous. Try refuting the facts presented against Trump, as opposed to playing the poor persecuted right-winger, and you may have more success here.



Edited by Koroush Ghazi on 26 May 2019 at 3:52pm
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Paul Buchanan
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Posted: 26 May 2019 at 5:00pm | IP Logged | 2 post reply

  Koroush, You have a real knack for missing the point and reading into things what you want to believe. 

  The point I made, was that in no way is Trump's support on the JBF anywhere near his public support - whatever that percentage happens to be. Whether it's 50% or 41% ISN'T THE POINT! Read the post. How much clearer could I have spelled it out!? 

   And I love how you scream the word FACTS all throughout your post. You then site "analyses by subject matter experts". LOL! Hard to argue with those facts (whatever they are since you don't mention them) presented by "subject matter experts". Do the FACTS 3.6% unemployment mean anything to you. Oh the humanity. Oh the major harm. But how can one possibly argue with your "subject matter experts" and facts - whatever the hell they may be.

I also like how you summarize my point - even though that wasn't anywhere near my point. But that's what you do. Much easier to win an argument that way isn't it?


Edited by Paul Buchanan on 26 May 2019 at 5:04pm
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Brian Floyd
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Posted: 26 May 2019 at 5:58pm | IP Logged | 3 post reply

Paul, Trump's approval rating is likely in the toilet not because of things he's done politically (though I'm sure the tariffs on China aren't helping), but because of how he carries himself. How he acts. It is hard to approve of a narcisstic egomaniac who can't handle criticism and responds to it with childish insults, never admits when he's wrong, and can't open his mouth without lying or stretching the truth. I'm no fan of Trump, but to be fair, I never have been. He's the very definition of delusional.

And I'm a member of several different message boards besides this one. None are political, but a few have areas for political discussion. Trump supporters on all of those boards are few and far between. 




Edited by Brian Floyd on 26 May 2019 at 7:22pm
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John Byrne
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Posted: 26 May 2019 at 6:21pm | IP Logged | 4 post reply

...a narcisstic egomaniac who can't handle criticism and responds to it with childish insults, never admits when he's wrong...

•••

Hey!

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Koroush Ghazi
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Posted: 26 May 2019 at 6:41pm | IP Logged | 5 post reply

 Paul Buchanan wrote:
And I love how you scream the word FACTS all throughout your post. You then site "analyses by subject matter experts". LOL! Hard to argue with those facts (whatever they are since you don't mention them) presented by "subject matter experts". Do the FACTS 3.6% unemployment mean anything to you. Oh the humanity. Oh the major harm. But how can one possibly argue with your "subject matter experts" and facts - whatever the hell they may be.


Paul, I think it's fairly clear by now that you really don't have much of a "point", it's basically just a rolling smokescreen designed to deflect attention away from the idiotic things Trump does on a daily basis.

But once again, you - and most Trump supporters - seem to conveniently ignore, distort, or blatantly lie about the facts. You want facts? You can't handle the facts! :)

Take the "3.6% unemployment" figure you decide to throw in, presumably to demonstrate that Trump is doing good things economically. Totally devoid of the context, namely that Obama did all of the heavy lifting - if anything, unemployment is declining at a slower rate under Trump than Obama:




But here's where those pesky subject matter experts foul things up for you and any other Trumpanzees. Here's the overall economic benefit of Trump's policies:

IMF Cuts Global Growth Outlook:


 QUOTE:
The International Monetary Fund cut its outlook for global growth to the lowest since the financial crisis amid a bleaker outlook in most major advanced economies and signs that higher tariffs are weighing on trade.


OECD Cuts Global Growth Forecast as US-China Tensions Rise:


 QUOTE:
The OECD on Tuesday cut its forecast for the world economy, urging governments to resolve their trade disputes as the latest flare-up in the China-US trade war threatens to crimp global growth.


Of course the hacks at the IMF and OECD aren't nearly as expert in economics as President Trump, a man who is boasting about all the "extra dollars" his tariffs are bringing in - even when the New York Federal Reserve (via this Wall Street Journal Article) has calculated that:


 QUOTE:
The Trump administration’s latest increase in tariffs on Chinese imports is costing the average U.S. household $831 a year through higher prices and reduced economic efficiency.


I could go on, but as I noted earlier, presenting facts to a Trump supporter is the very definition of futility.
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Richard Stevens
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Posted: 26 May 2019 at 7:00pm | IP Logged | 6 post reply

It could just be that this place has a particularly low number of Orange Boy supporters because it self-sorts for higher than average intelligence.
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Brian Miller
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Posted: 26 May 2019 at 8:25pm | IP Logged | 7 post reply

We spent the afternoon at the Pearl Harbor memorial. Lots of FDR stuff there including a little short film that showed the beginning of his speech to Congress. Just watching and reading all this with FDR and seeing and reading about how he acted and what he did during the war then realizing Donald Joke Trump is currently in the same position as Franklin D Roosevelt just depresses me to no end. 
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Matt Hawes
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Posted: 26 May 2019 at 8:35pm | IP Logged | 8 post reply

 Paul B wrote:
...(to Koroush) You then site "analyses by subject matter experts". LOL!...


I know this is going to come off as a word-police kind of thing, but I am compelled to point out the word you meant was "cite," not "site."

Ok... back to the politics...
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Eric Ladd
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Posted: 27 May 2019 at 10:25am | IP Logged | 9 post reply

If you don't like being called a Nazi then don't associate yourself with someone that can't seem to denounce white supremacists. When the current president said "there are bad people on both sides" he was way off base. Associating yourself even in a round about way with a group of tiki torch carrying, Nazi slogan spouting, nationally recognized hate groups might result in others referring to you as a Nazi. Would any American recognize that there bad people on both sides of WW2?

The gloves are off. Don't expect civility in politics if you are a liar, motivated by greed, abuse power, belittle others, ignore facts, let your results justify treating others horribly, etc. The climate has been tainted by the current people in power. Republicans used underhanded tactics during the Garland nomination, used underhanded tactics during the sham Kavanaugh hearing and the fear of continued use of underhanded tactics have caused people to wake up, drop the gloves and swing for the fences. You are part of the mob of cowards and to paraphrase Jeff Daniels, a mob acts on emotion, absent of facts and responsibility where people go to take a break from their conscience. It's a bit ironic that you don't like like the current level of discord in political discussion because in some way you are then against the person that brought it, Donald Trump.
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Peter Martin
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Posted: 27 May 2019 at 12:23pm | IP Logged | 10 post reply

I personally think the President tends to only have a very limited direct influence on the strength of the economy. 

Whether the US is in an expansionary phase or in contraction, tends to tally up with periods of global expansion and contraction. While the US economy is the largest in the world, and therefore has a larger effect on the global economy than any other nation, it falls more into the category of being a contributor rather than a cause of such changes, which historically have been quite regularly cyclical (we are, however, in an extremely long expansionary phase currently; don't worry, though, Winter is Coming).

The way in which the US weathered the last downturn was more to do with the Fed being left alone to re-inflate the balloon than anything else. Of course, Trump has been threatening the previously independent Fed in a way that he reserves for US allies and friends.
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Matt Hawes
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Posted: 27 May 2019 at 4:16pm | IP Logged | 11 post reply

LOL!...





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Koroush Ghazi
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Posted: 27 May 2019 at 4:47pm | IP Logged | 12 post reply

 Peter Martin wrote:
Whether the US is in an expansionary phase or in contraction, tends to tally up with periods of global expansion and contraction. While the US economy is the largest in the world, and therefore has a larger effect on the global economy than any other nation, it falls more into the category of being a contributor rather than a cause of such changes, which historically have been quite regularly cyclical (we are, however, in an extremely long expansionary phase currently; don't worry, though, Winter is Coming).


Short answer: Nope.

Long answer: See the links I provided about the IMF and OECD, pointing the finger squarely at the US, specifically Trump.

You're right in that we were in an expansionary phase in global growth, it's been Trump's continual buffoonery, purely for the sake of posturing, that has caused most economic forecasters to revise growth expectations downwards. To spell this out even further: when economists revise a forecast downward, it means something exceptional has happened outside of the known cycle to make them adjust their forecast.

Edited by Koroush Ghazi on 27 May 2019 at 4:49pm
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