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Paul Buchanan
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 01 April 2018
Location: United States
Posts: 87
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| Posted: 25 May 2019 at 8:54am | IP Logged | 1
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Pro child murder? That doesn’t sound healthy.
Thanks for perfectly illustrating my point JB.
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 132241
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| Posted: 25 May 2019 at 8:58am | IP Logged | 2
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And to you, for illustrating mine.
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Richard Stevens
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 04 May 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 1927
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| Posted: 25 May 2019 at 9:52am | IP Logged | 3
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If you're gonna support a shitbird Nazi wannabe, you might get ganged up on. That's show biz, baby.
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Peter Martin
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 17 March 2008
Location: Canada
Posts: 15783
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| Posted: 25 May 2019 at 2:14pm | IP Logged | 4
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Here we go. Poor old Paul. Only appears in Trump threads but then gets upset when a mod says, "hey, you only post in Trump threads". The outrage!
Gets sworn at in the form of 'give me a fucking break', it's hardly a personal attack is it?
And as for resorting back to the same old ugly narratives instead of debating policy, I'm sure you'd never have been guilty of ,say, bringing up the corrupt-Hillary-narrative when others are trying to discuss Trump's policies.
From my experience, one reason the (admittedly few) Trump supporters have received short thrift is the tendency to disregard legitimate points by twisting the truth about previous administrations to make Trump's policies appear no different from the past, so that anyone who opposes these policies can then be painted as simply being hysterically and irrationally opposed to Trump himself.
For example, the Trump administration made a specific change to border control, adopting a zero-tolerance to unlawful border crossings. This departed from the past, in that the US government prosecuted everyone who did so as a criminal.... resulting in children being separated from their parents.
When this point got raised, up came the argument of 'it happened under Obama as well'. Except, such criminal prosecutions under Obama were the exception not the rule. Plenty of deportations, but not everyone prosecuted as a criminal and their kids separated as an intentional weapon against immigrants.
But, hey, just JBF forum members with their anti-Trump bias, I suppose.
Funnily enough, in the back and forth with Matt Reed that you brought up, you said that you'd be embarrassed for making premature, uninformed conclusions. You then went on later in the thread to say the Muller report would never be released nor should it and those asking for such a release know better and it was purely for political theatre. Of course, it was then subsequently released. Embarrassed by your premature conclusion?
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Eric Ladd
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 August 2004
Location: Canada
Posts: 4506
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| Posted: 25 May 2019 at 3:09pm | IP Logged | 5
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Personally, I think the JBF doesn't tolerate ignorant statements, arguments backed with conjecture or people that can't separate personal opinion from fact. The subject almost doesn't matter if someone ignores sensible discussion for idiocy.
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Mark Waldman
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 August 2006
Location: United States
Posts: 1272
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| Posted: 25 May 2019 at 4:35pm | IP Logged | 6
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Oh Peter.
Anyway - hard to say the report has been released after 1.5 years of harassment by agent orange on Twitter, TV, rallies, wherever he could bellow, the report comes out and he and his puppet Barr rush off for weeks with a marker to cover any "bad stuff." The report is released - out of context, pages long, that Mueller himself was sickened by. The full report comes out, yes, but redacted and Democrats in Congress are not allowed to view it. You think this is right?
The Trump whine is absurd, similar to when Christians (no offense to any walk the walk Christians) claim they are a minority and being persecuted by those means athiests and other religions (that aren't as good, they claim, as their own).
You can't hold rallies, march the streets with Nazi salutes, support a complete liar and sociopath and claim you are being picked on. The Obama part is ludicrious. Agent orange spent the better part of Obama's presidency trying to delegitimize it with talk he was a Muslim terrorist and not America. Gee, I wonder why the Republicans would try to delegitimize the first African-American president? Hmm.
No need to respond, I won't read it. Your take is compeltely wrong on so many levels it's just laughable. But I won't laugh because it's not funny.
Advice: you have every right to your opinion, however ill-informed it may be but perhaps threads about the orange man aren't for you. Why subject yourself to it if you feel so differently? Stick to the threads you like. For example, if you started one called Donald Trump - the Best President Ever, I would not click on it. A waste of my time as apparently this one is for you.
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 132241
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| Posted: 25 May 2019 at 8:25pm | IP Logged | 7
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...you have every right to your opinion, however ill-informed it may be...••• Do people have the “right” to ill-informed opinions? Nothing really can be done to stop them expressing their unfounded thoughts, sure. But should we encourage them?
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Peter Martin
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 17 March 2008
Location: Canada
Posts: 15783
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| Posted: 25 May 2019 at 8:33pm | IP Logged | 8
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Being ill-informed is one thing. Refusing to amend your position when better-informed is another.
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Koroush Ghazi
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 25 October 2009
Location: Australia
Posts: 1646
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| Posted: 25 May 2019 at 8:42pm | IP Logged | 9
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John Byrne wrote:
| Do people have the “right” to ill-informed opinions? |
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The answer, of course, is no. As Harlan Ellison said:
"You are not entitled to your opinion. You are entitled to your informed opinion. No one is entitled to be ignorant."
Arguing that people are entitled to uninformed opinions is essentially the same as saying people have the right to be superstitious, or worse, that they have the right to promote falsehood as fact, simply because it's "their opinion".
Facts supersede opinions at all times. If the facts do not support your opinions, it is you who needs to change, not the facts.
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Paul Buchanan
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 01 April 2018
Location: United States
Posts: 87
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| Posted: 25 May 2019 at 9:32pm | IP Logged | 10
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Peter - It's awfully easy to try to make your point when you can leave out important parts of what I said to try to strengthen your argument. Kind of like a straw-man argument. Only worse.For instance I wasn't referring to Matt saying "give me a fucking break" to me. But was instead having been referred to as a "condescending asshole". Somehow missed that part didn't you Pete? Even though it was in the same post.
And keeping with your attempt at a "gotcha" moment, when I was talking about the Mueller Report not being released, you conveniently left out the part where I said the "Complete report" will not be released. In fact, here's the quote: "The complete report will never be released (unless it's leaked), nor should it be. Releasing the full report will expose foreign agents, people that cooperated only because they were promised anonymity , investigative tactics that the investigators don't want released, people named without ever being questioned and did not have the chance to answer to innuendo and allegations included in the report, among many other reasons."
The "complete' report wasn't released. A redacted one was.If you're going to try to call me out, at least have the sense to quote me accurately.
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Richard Stevens
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 04 May 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 1927
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| Posted: 25 May 2019 at 10:18pm | IP Logged | 11
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Take a nap, champ.
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Peter Martin
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 17 March 2008
Location: Canada
Posts: 15783
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| Posted: 25 May 2019 at 10:32pm | IP Logged | 12
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"I'm happy to condescend Matt when it's deserved". Matt then went on to say that you were admitting to being a condescending asshole. Once again (with feeling): the outrage!
As for the release of the report. I suggested that the release of the full report was required, in contrast to a biased summary from a partisan summariser. Your response was as above. Redactions/no redactions are irrelevant in that context. The context was enough details being released to obviate the partisan slant from Barr.
At least have the sense to apply some sense.
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