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Koroush Ghazi
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Posted: 15 June 2019 at 11:51pm | IP Logged | 1 post reply

This recent clickbait article entitled Iron Man Confirms Superman Exists in Marvel's Universe makes a big deal out of the fact that in the upcoming Iron Man #13 (Volume ??), the character specifically mentions Kryptonite.



This got me thinking, I know there were official one-off non-canon DC/Marvel crossover comics, and Stan would frequently mention the Distinguished Competition in the Bullpen Bulletins for example, but how often - if ever - did Marvel characters or comics specifically reference a DC character or DC universe-specific aspect in the old days?

I can find examples of more recent Marvel comics in which the characters blatantly reference DC counterparts, e.g. in this thread:






But this is a new thing, right? In the old days, the references were always subtle and indirect... or am I imagining things?
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Brian Hague
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Posted: 16 June 2019 at 2:02am | IP Logged | 2 post reply

First off, Iron Man's mention of kryptonite in that panel in no way indicates that it "really" exists in the Marvel Universe as anything more than a concept synonymous with "weakness" or "anathema." Metaphysics is a subject pragmatist and engineer Tony Stark considers toxic. It's a figure of speech that no more requires kryptonite's existence to be real in the MU than it does here.

The same could mostly be said for the other two panels shown as well. People are mistaking Daredevil for a comic book character. Peter Parker is quoting the movies. 

In the old days, there wasn't much cross-company referencing going on at all, and when it did, it was usually with a wink to the audience such as well Chameleon Boy spun a web and said he'd been doing so long before a "certain Peter-come-lately..." which cannot be true if said Peter were "real" because he would have lived a thousand years or so before Chameleon Boy was born. It was a knowing reference intended for the sake of the reader, offered with a literal wink. 

Batman makes a similar mention of Spider-Man while spinning around a flagpole in an issue of Brave and the Bold. Clark Kent shows up in the Bugle newsroom talking with Joe Robertson as if the two are old friends in MTU. Thor as "Sigurd Jarlson" runs into Clark at a courthouse after wondering if a pair of glasses can actually work as a credible disguise. 

It was all done on the sly and almost always with at least a sideways glance at the fourth wall. Very little exists in canon that ties the two storytelling universes together. More often, the concepts and characters of one universe are known to the people in another as comic book ideas, usually with an accompanying barb thrown in for the sake of some mean-spirited humor and spirited rivalry. 

It was usually more glib than subtle, and none of it seemed designed to suggest or imply another more than a jab at the other guys. 


Edited by Brian Hague on 16 June 2019 at 2:03am
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William Roberge
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Posted: 16 June 2019 at 5:05am | IP Logged | 3 post reply

What Brian said...
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William Roberge
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Posted: 16 June 2019 at 5:10am | IP Logged | 4 post reply

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John Byrne
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Posted: 16 June 2019 at 5:59am | IP Logged | 5 post reply

Ah, Chris. That was supposed to be Robbie offering a job to a guy who, hey!, looks like Clark Kent. But Chris had to get the sledgehammer out.
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Brian Floyd
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Posted: 16 June 2019 at 9:13am | IP Logged | 6 post reply

Spider-Man mentioned Bruce Wayne back during the 4 arms storyline. 


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Jonathan A. Dowdell
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Posted: 16 June 2019 at 10:25am | IP Logged | 7 post reply

Lois & Jimmy in X-Men 141...

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Brian Miller
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Posted: 16 June 2019 at 10:44am | IP Logged | 8 post reply

Gadzooks!

I never noticed that before!!
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Jonathan A. Dowdell
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Posted: 16 June 2019 at 10:48am | IP Logged | 9 post reply

Part 2...


This is long before I started reading Superman but I noticed it and on a later reread I picked up the reference to confirm (I guess Claremont saw it)
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Eric Sofer
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Posted: 16 June 2019 at 10:51am | IP Logged | 10 post reply

As memory serves...

In an X-Men annual with the New Mutants and the X-Babies (and Mojo), Lois and Clark are among an audience trapped in a theatre, and Clark laments that he cannot move or do anything, which Mojo acknowledges.

In a Marvel Team-Up with Spider-Man and Nightcrawler, a young man wears a Batman shirt.

In one of the Spider-Man comic strips, Spider-Man sheeshes that he didn't come from Krypton.


In X-Men's love of steali- that is, homaging, I seem to recall a reference to DC's "INVASION!" three issue mini series with Perry White and Jimmy Olsen in it. But I wasn't reading X-Men at the time, so I don't know. I suppose it was Chris Claremont writing it.

I THINK I recall that in an early New X-Men (#98?), Lois and Clark appeared in a winter scene  but I'm not sure on that one.

In Spider-Man #4, Doctor Octopus calls Peter Parker Superman. But  maybe that was a slip... :)

Iron Man referencing Kryptonite - I'm pretty sure that I have seen theatres in the MU showing both "Superman the Movie" and "Batman." Possibly other films...

In a simpler world, we'd KNOW that Marvel and DC characters exist in the same universe, and have since the first Superman/Spider-Man team up.

And if we look at the Squadrons Sinister and Supreme... well, those aren't exact, and that's what we're looking for. Bu there IS a reference to Batman (unmentioned) in Captain America #314, the crossover with the Squadron Supreme maxi-series. Nighthawk, in his original outfit, is walking into a building, and the shadow is that of Batman; and a passerby asks, "Didn't he have his own TV show?" Also, Bill Finger giant props abound.

There are more appearances, I'm sure of it - but I can't remember more, and this ought to do for a start.
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John Byrne
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Posted: 16 June 2019 at 10:55am | IP Logged | 11 post reply

They really colored Cap’s uniform RED??
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Bill Mimbu
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Posted: 16 June 2019 at 12:51pm | IP Logged | 12 post reply

This might be... Uh... Stretching things a bit...

Reed lost his powers and was thrown into the Negative Zone by his evil doppleganger, The Brute, in FF #179.

Ends up catching, killing, and eating a "batlike animal" he nicknames "Bruce":



Edited by Bill Mimbu on 16 June 2019 at 12:54pm
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