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Rick Whiting
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 22 April 2004
Posts: 2188
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| Posted: 11 July 2019 at 12:46am | IP Logged | 1
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Top 10 mistakes that Marvel has made with Wolverine in no particular order.
1. Giving him his own ongoing series. Notice how most of his various series over the last few years (with the exception of the gimmick/event series) have not been selling as well as they used to even by today's lowered sales standards.
2. Telling his origin.
3. Making him a father with multiple children.
4. Having him join the Avengers.
5. Giving him his own black ops hit squad X-Team (X-Force) to lead with a team roster made up of similar like minded violent characters who have no problems killing bad guys and most of whom have bladed weapons (talk about unoriginal).
6. Making him a member of several teams at the same time.
7. Over powering him.
8. Making him connected to several characters in the MU.
9. Making his "lets kill the bad guys" attitude the acceptable rule/norm instead of the exception among the heroes.
10. Making him less unique by introducing a bunch of Wolverine knockoffs with similar powers and attitude.
Edited by Rick Whiting on 11 July 2019 at 12:48am
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Adam Schulman
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Joined: 22 July 2017
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| Posted: 11 July 2019 at 5:18am | IP Logged | 2
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I'd say #4 was the biggest error. Then again, it's the easiest to correct -- kick him off the team. The hardest ones to correct are #2, #7 and #8.
And while I agree that giving Logan his own series wasn't a great idea, the character was just way, way too popular for that particular cash grab to be avoided.
Edited by Adam Schulman on 11 July 2019 at 5:20am
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Rick Whiting
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 22 April 2004
Posts: 2188
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| Posted: 12 July 2019 at 1:46am | IP Logged | 3
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I'd say #4 was the biggest error. Then again, it's the easiest to correct -- kick him off the team. The hardest ones to correct are #2, #7 and #8.
And while I agree that giving Logan his own series wasn't a great idea, the character was just way, way too popular for that particular cash grab to be avoided.
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All of those things can easily be corrected by simply just retconning them out of continuity and never mentioning them again. However, if you want an in story explanation that explains away those stories they could simply say that his origin was a false memory implant, him being over powered was a temporary result of coming into contact with that mystical cosmic crystal,and his connection to many of the Marvel characters isn't as tight or intertwined as people though.
As for him being to financially valuable to not give him his own series, Marvel could have just given him a four to six issue mini series each year or every other year. He didn't need to be given an ongoing series.
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Eric Jansen
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Joined: 27 October 2013
Location: United States
Posts: 2292
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| Posted: 12 July 2019 at 2:06am | IP Logged | 4
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Sorry, everybody. I was about 14 years old when I wrote Jim Shooter a letter listing ten characters or teams that I thought should have their own comic and reasons why--and Wolverine was at the top of that list! Obviously, Shooter listened to me, ruining the character forever! (At least he ignored me about Paladin! So, he's safe!)
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
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| Posted: 12 July 2019 at 8:54am | IP Logged | 5
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All of those things can easily be corrected by simply just retconning them out of continuity and never mentioning them again. ••• You make a common error, there. Something can be “never mentioned again” without any need for a retcon. Reed and Ben served in WW2, until it became policy to simply never mention it again. Today, I expect, we’d get a 12 part crossover “event” explaining it—and probably revealing that Reed is a clone of Hitler.
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Brian Floyd
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Joined: 07 July 2006
Location: United States
Posts: 8355
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| Posted: 13 July 2019 at 12:29am | IP Logged | 6
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"Sins Past" should never be mentioned - or revisited - again......
To Rick's list, I'd add #11: The love triangle between Logan, Jean and Scott. Would have been better off if Logan's affections were one-sided.And I'd modify #10 by adding that they also gave several other characters regeneration abilities, not just Wolverine knock-offs. Personally, I'm waiting for Deadpool to find out he has bone guns.....
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
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| Posted: 13 July 2019 at 4:41am | IP Logged | 7
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To Rick's list, I'd add #11: The love triangle between Logan, Jean and Scott. Would have been better off if Logan's affections were one-sided.•• Typical example of giving fans what they think they want--but also something else. Playing to long time readers, readers who really should have stopped reading comics ten, fifteen, forty years ago, the first time they found their adult sensibilities intruding on their demands. And it's not at all surprising that Chris would be the one to play this out. It was an ongoing topic of "conversation" during my days on the book, his notion that "after all these years" certain things should have happened. I fought to maintain the non-time approach, but once I was gone. . .
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John Byrne
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| Posted: 13 July 2019 at 4:43am | IP Logged | 8
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9. Making his "lets kill the bad guys" attitude the acceptable rule/norm instead of the exception among the heroes.•• Wally Wood used to say "There are good guys, and there are bad guys, and the job of the good guys is to kill the bad guys." By the time I got into the Biz this was becoming less and less a joke.
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Shawn Kane
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Joined: 04 November 2010
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| Posted: 13 July 2019 at 7:38am | IP Logged | 9
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I can't imagine that Quesada would ever let them "undo" stories that happened while he was Editor-in-Chief. The most ridiculous usage of Wolverine's background was Bendis having Squirrel-Girl see Wolverine and saying something like "James..." indicating they had a past.
I've often wondered if sometimes current writers bring back certain controversial (unpopular) retcons that haven't been mentioned for a while in order to get favor from the original writer. "if I bring back Gwen Stacy's twins maybe JMS will put in a good word with Hollywood for me." Or even "This storyline made everyone mad and got lots of Internet press so maybe if I bring the characters back, I'll get the same coverage!"
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John Byrne
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| Posted: 13 July 2019 at 5:38pm | IP Logged | 10
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Yes. The days of actually serving the characters seem far behind us.
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Peter Martin
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Joined: 17 March 2008
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| Posted: 13 July 2019 at 9:04pm | IP Logged | 11
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I think it would be interesting to have Wolverine find a gravestone for James Howlett and this stir up some knowledge that that whole chunk of memories were false.
There are no shortage of Psi folk in the Marvel universe who could have implanted it. You then get: (a) a whodunnit arc for Wolverine to investigate and (b) a restored man of mystery who does not know how he came to be.
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Jason Scott
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| Posted: 14 July 2019 at 1:20am | IP Logged | 12
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I remember when I was a young kid meeting Chris Claremont at a book signing in Forbidden Planet, he tried to explain to me why Wolverine's origin should never be told. That it is best if it is left up to the reader's imagination. As every person will have a different take on it, that they prefer. And so no writer is going to be able to satisfy everyone with it. He actually said if it were left up to him, that story would never be told.
Being a dumb kid, I was disappointed at the time. (I had my own stupid ideas about Apocalypse haven given him the claws. As this was right around the time that Angel was given the metal wings.)
But of course as I got older, I belatedly realised that he was absolutely right. I really could do without all the Weapon X stuff, never mind the James Howlett origin tale and everything since.
And Wolverine definitely should never ever have been allowed on the Avengers. Not just for the obvious moral reasons, but when you start having every character swapping onto the various teams, you lose that teams identity.
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