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John Byrne
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Posted: 19 July 2019 at 12:25pm | IP Logged | 1 post reply

Shouldn’t she be a double-o-some-other-number?

•••

Why?

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Michael Hogan
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Posted: 19 July 2019 at 12:44pm | IP Logged | 2 post reply

I thought the "double-o" part indicated the license to kill, while the trailing number was the particular agent's designation.

Edited by Michael Hogan on 19 July 2019 at 12:44pm
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John Byrne
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Posted: 19 July 2019 at 1:20pm | IP Logged | 3 post reply

Strictly based on what we know, the Double-0 designation seems to have come into existence at some point immediately post WW2. That would at least fit Bond’s original history with the organization.

Like a comic book superhero, tho, movie Bond’s timeline has needed to be adaptive, sliding along behind him and morphing as world conditions changed. We are asked to believe the James Bond who will be seen in the next movie is the same guy we “met” in DR. NO. He’s clearly not in his eighties (nor does he likely have access to the Infinity Formula), but it also doesn’t seem likely that the Double-0 branch is a post COLD War invention.

So, it seems most probable that in the present timeline—divorced from the books—James Bond was not the first 007, and will not be the last.

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Paul Gibney
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Posted: 19 July 2019 at 1:57pm | IP Logged | 4 post reply

According to QI, long before Ian Fleming would create James Bond, another man signed letters with "007." John Dee was a mathematician, astronomer, and (some say) magician. He was also a trusted member of Queen Elizabeth I's court. Some historians say that Dee was a spy for Elizabeth, thus making him a fitting inspiration for Ian Fleming's character.
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Koroush Ghazi
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Posted: 19 July 2019 at 8:00pm | IP Logged | 5 post reply

 John Byrne wrote:
But that is exactly what they are NOT doing here. The point of my original post. This is not a "female Bond". This is a female 007.


I understand JB, but I was under the impression from earlier articles that she would become the defacto head of the Bond franchise when taking on the lead 007 designation. But as more details are coming out, it seem to be just a silly publicity stunt, and nothing more, which makes it even more annoying.

It appears Bond will "retire", the new female agent will become 007, then Bond will come back, and... what happens to the 007 designation, who gets it given it's traditionally been Bond's?

Entirely my fault for falling for this garbage, back I go to my old movies and original books. Somebody call me if/when they come up with an original and genuinely empowered female character in a movie. Meanwhile, I'll be busy putting up some "get off my lawn" signs in the front yard, in between yelling at clouds.
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John Byrne
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Posted: 20 July 2019 at 6:57am | IP Logged | 6 post reply

Somebody call me if/when they come up with an original and genuinely empowered female character in a movie.

••

Movies in general, or specifically Bond films?

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Koroush Ghazi
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Posted: 20 July 2019 at 9:46am | IP Logged | 7 post reply

I'll say movies in general for now. I don't think the Bond world will ever be an appropriate place for an empowered woman, because any such woman would instantly see through Bond's facade and have nothing to do with him. What we typically get is the girl with the tough exterior who inevitably ends up a slave to Bond's charms, because that's what the story demands for Bond to win.

By empowered, I don't mean what it seems Hollywood means, i.e, either the "badass" who can outshoot and outfight any man, but is also model-thin and pretty, or the other stereotypically empowered woman, who is cute but slovenly, boorish and more crass than any man.

Sigourney Weaver in Alien is possibly the best one I can think of right now. Intelligent, caring, determined, tough - but not implausibly so, feminine but not objectified, just a good character overall, not just a good female character. More broadly, your Heather Hudson also comes to mind along with Kitty Pryde. Irene Adler in Sherlock Holmes. I'm spent, someone else add some more!

I think this article covers some of what I mean when I talk about the problem with "empowered" women:


 QUOTE:
Why do we describe good female characters as Strong? Do we call Iron Man or Doctor Who Strong Male Characters? No, we find other ways to describe them. Iron Man is confident, billionaire, play boy, smooth-talker, philanthropist while Pepper Potts is… a strong female character. See the problem? Strong is just a place word we use to check a box: does this movie have a strong female character for the ladies? Yep.

Most often these box checkers take the term too literally. The woman will come in as an ultra-fighter. Brains, beauty, and brawn she is the epitome of strong female character and way too fake for my liking.


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John Byrne
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Posted: 20 July 2019 at 10:03am | IP Logged | 8 post reply

Sigourney Weaver was NOT objectified in ALIEN??
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Koroush Ghazi
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Posted: 20 July 2019 at 7:38pm | IP Logged | 9 post reply

The gratuitous tacked-on spacesuit scene at the end yes, otherwise the rest came pretty close to being what I thought was ideal.
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Michael Penn
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Posted: 20 July 2019 at 7:39pm | IP Logged | 10 post reply

I think that the basic concept of any other person, whatever gender or race, etc., working as "007" could be fine as long as that role in the organization (still) makes sense. Solely in that regard, no direct swap would be taking place.

However, to be upfront, as a fan of the first series of movies, and a Sean Connery fan too, no other actor in the Bond role has been to my liking, at least enough to consider any non-Connery Bond films essential Bond. All else could vanish, and Bond -- for me --  would still be perfect. I personally have no interest in the franchise continuing, and rather than seeing what may to some extent be an oblique gender swap in this new casting in order (inter alia) to keep capitalizing on the Bond background, I'd much rather see an all-new female character. 
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Matt Reed
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Posted: 21 July 2019 at 2:45am | IP Logged | 11 post reply

I took a long time and consideration to weigh in on this discussion specifically because I'm a tangential fan to the franchise.  I loved Connery, hated all other Bonds (which was decades) and then kinda liked Craig. But, having said that, I feel that I have to agree with JB. 007 is a designation, not a specific character.  They're not replacing Bond with a female version, but giving a woman his same designation.  And it's for a single film.  Trial run?  Test balloon? Who knows.  But, at the end of the day, who cares?  I get the argument about creating new characters that can be women in their own series, but c'mon it's not that easy.  It's all about ip and what is instantly recognizable by an audience that has a bajillion other things to strike their fancy.  This has gotten an audience to engage in a way that they haven't for decades.  I've got a friend who religiously watches every new Bond film just because she feels she has to.  Is introducing a new female 007 into the mix so crazy?  Is it really pandering to the MeToo movement or can it honestly be a move to include women in the discussion as being as capable as a man? 
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John Byrne
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Posted: 21 July 2019 at 8:36am | IP Logged | 12 post reply

(Watch as I get in trouble...)

I find it interesting that the transfer of the 007 title from Bond to a woman—having no effect on Bond himself—causes consternation, while the suggestion of Idris Elba playing Bond—which would necessitate a total rewrite of his history (including previous movies)—is applauded as “diversity”.

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