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Topic: Differentiating Batman, Captain America, Daredevil and Iron Fist Post ReplyPost New Topic
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DW Zomberg
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Joined: 12 June 2012
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Posted: 19 July 2019 at 7:42am | IP Logged | 1 post reply

Wolverine with a punch in the gut

Wolverine's tummy doesn't have the metal that lines the bulk of his skeletal frame. Shield or no shield, Cap beats the angry runt.
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Eric Ladd
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Posted: 19 July 2019 at 7:53am | IP Logged | 2 post reply

Remember not to apply too much real world analysis to comic book hand to hand combat. Wins and losses in comics are very much driven by the story and while it is fun to debate who would win scenarios the fighting that takes place in comic books is a far cry from what we would see if our heroes were real people. In the last couple of decades fighting has been distilling strategies and movements down into ever more efficient actions. If comic book artists had characters fighting in the most believable ways possible then it might look very boring on the page.

I think situations can be invented that give each of these four characters an advantage that justifies them winning against any of the others. But generally speaking, I think Batman seems to have the most situations where he is the winner.
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Steve Coates
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Posted: 20 July 2019 at 4:44pm | IP Logged | 3 post reply

Based on my understanding of the characters of about 25 years ago and referencing the OHOTMU (from then) for some basic statistics: It is fairly obvious Captain America is the winner of any empty hand combat against any human range opponent. All the heroes from my time would not be using lethal force, although characters like Ka-zar, Shanna and Tarzan would have a very pragmatic outlook. Borderline and villain characters like Punisher, Kraven, Taskmaster and Kingpin would not hesitate to use deadly force. I also believe Batman would avoid direct combat with anyone he could not subdue efficiently and would seek alternate solutions.

Below are some of the numbers I cobbled together, with Captain America forming the baseline, as he is described as the epitome of human physiology.

Character Height (in) Height (imperial) Weight (lbs) Height (m) Weight (kg) Strength Skill Speed Athleticism Application
Moon Knight 74 6' 2" 225 1.880 102.27 200 85 85 95 702
Kraven 72 6' 0" 235 1.829 106.82 200 75 90 90 649
Tarzan 75 6' 3"  225 1.905 102.27 150 85 100 95 619
Captain America 74 6' 2" 240 1.880 109.09 100 100 100 100 545
Batman 74 6' 2" 210 1.880 95.45 95 100 100 95 431
Puck 42 3' 6" 225 1.067 102.27 90 90 90 95 354
Mantis 66 5' 6" 115 1.676 52.27 60 200 100 100 314
Hawkeye 75 6' 3" 230 1.905 104.55 75 90 90 90 286
Black Panther 72 6' 0" 185 1.829 84.09 75 100 100 90 284
Kingpin 79 6' 7" 450 2.007 204.55 90 60 85 60 282
Shang-chi 70 5' 10" 175 1.778 79.55 75 100 95 99 281
Iron Fist 71 5' 11" 175 1.803 79.55 75 100 95 99 281
Batroc 72 6' 0" 225 1.829 102.27 75 90 90 90 280
Nick Fury 73 6' 1" 225 1.854 102.27 75 90 90 90 280
Wolverine 63 5' 3" 195 1.600 88.64 90 75 100 90 269
Taskmaster 74 6' 2" 220 1.880 100.00 75 100 75 90 253
Ka-zar 74 6' 2" 215 1.880 97.73 75 85 90 90 252
Falcon 74 6' 2" 240 1.880 109.09 75 80 85 90 250
Daredevil 72 6' 0" 200 1.829 90.91 75 90 90 90 249
Redwolf 76 6' 4" 240 1.930 109.09 75 75 75 90 207
Punisher 73 6' 1" 200 1.854 90.91 75 75 75 90 173
Black Widow 67 5' 7" 125 1.702 56.82 60 100 100 90 153
Shanna 70 5' 10" 140 1.778 63.64 75 75 75 90 121
Colleen Wing 69 5' 9" 135 1.753 61.36 75 75 75 90 116

Mass is a big factor in any combat and in Captain America’s case, his greater mass does not diminish any other factor. JB’s character Puck would have an advantage over all the characters, because he would have a great deal of experience fighting taller opponents, far more than the tall characters have fighting shorter characters. The height difference is something the female characters could also exploit. Any character with greater than human range strength has a huge advantage over any weaker opponents. Super strong or massive characters would do well to grapple with their opponents and use their strength to break bones or rupture joints. Their strength and some knowledge of nerve cluster locations could be used to injure even the heaviest muscled opponents.

Caveats:
Wolverine’s strength should exceed/match Captain America’s. He has been carrying around all that adamantium and his healing factor should repair and improve his muscles to the upmost.
Batman with a utility belt doesn’t loose.
I wish I could consider Tarzan to have human range strength, but anyone who can match or exceed the strength of a full grown male gorilla or lion is outside the human range.


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Brian Hague
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Posted: 20 July 2019 at 10:58pm | IP Logged | 4 post reply

Steve, my admiration goes out to you for the work done in compiling those stats. I'm not the sort who engages in these debates. I'm more of an "any given Sunday" sort, but I have to give it up for the work you've put in here.

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Bill Dowling
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Posted: 21 July 2019 at 8:09pm | IP Logged | 5 post reply

I’d expect Wolverine to weigh closer to 300 lbs. 
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Wallace Sellars
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Posted: 23 July 2019 at 6:55am | IP Logged | 6 post reply

I can appreciate the effort Steve put into creating that chart, though looking at it actually pushes me more towards the opinion that so specifically defining a characters fighting abilities, skills and strength level is something that shouldn't be done.
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Steve Coates
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Posted: 23 July 2019 at 7:31am | IP Logged | 7 post reply

Sorry, guys. I wasn't clear. The attributions for strength, speed, skill and athleticism are mine. The application is a multiplication of those four and mass (weight), divided by some factor to reduce to a comprehensible number.

Although most definitions of athleticism are physical aspects, here I am using it more for the talent, mental and commitment aspects.

I started by setting attributes for Captain America to 100 as the character is defined as the epitome of human physical abilities.

I would suggest pasting into a spreadsheet and change some variables to experiment.


Edited by Steve Coates on 23 July 2019 at 7:31am
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