Active Topics | Member List | Search | Help | Register | Login
The John Byrne Forum
Byrne Robotics > The John Byrne Forum << Prev Page of 18 Next >>
Topic: Et tu, Moira!? Or...what makes a mutant - SPOILERS Post ReplyPost New Topic
Author
Message
Adam Schulman
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 22 July 2017
Posts: 1295
Posted: 13 August 2019 at 3:46pm | IP Logged | 1 post reply

“When everybody is super, nobody is.”

***

Yep. A persistent problem in superhero comics, not just an X-MEN problem. I think of all the Spider-Man supporting cast members who became super-people:

John Jameson (Man-Wolf)
Harry Osborn (Green Goblin II)
Ned Leeds (Hobgoblin, sort of -- he was brainwashed)
Liz Allen (stepsister of the Molten Man -- not the same thing, I know, but too coincidental)
Flash Thompson (as mentioned, he became Agent Venom)

I may be missing others. 
Back to Top profile | search
 
Rick Whiting
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 22 April 2004
Posts: 1971
Posted: 13 August 2019 at 6:08pm | IP Logged | 2 post reply

I've heard that Betsy Braddock is finally back to her original self now. Only took...30 years?

____________________


Ironically, Claremont was planning on returning her to her original British body during his Xtreme X-Men series 17 years ago in a planned story that was to have a recently killed Psylocke resurrected in her original body, but Quesada implemented his stupid "dead is dead" policy and forbid Claremont for resurrecting her. Conveniently, that policy went straight out of the window when Joss Wheedon got hired to write Astonishing X-Men and resurrected Colossus. Seems like this was a case of Quesada being a hypocrite and acting like a star struck fan who would suspend the rules he set for celebrity Hollywood creators (especially if said celebrity creator can sell a boat load of comics).
Back to Top profile | search
 
Michael Roberts
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 20 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 12994
Posted: 13 August 2019 at 6:34pm | IP Logged | 3 post reply

Seems like this was a case of Quesada being a hypocrite and acting like a star struck fan who would suspend the rules he set for celebrity Hollywood creators (especially if said celebrity creator can sell a boat load of comics).

———

X-Treme X-Men was just Claremont having Tessa/Sage Mary Sue (a term I really dislike, so for me to use it tells you how badly Claremont was writing Tessa) all over the place, while at least the first half of Whedon’s run was the only thing that had felt like X-Men in a long time, so Quesada made the right call in both instances, no matter his reasoning. 
Back to Top profile | search
 
Shawn Kane
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 04 November 2010
Location: United States
Posts: 2823
Posted: 13 August 2019 at 6:35pm | IP Logged | 4 post reply

I thought about Molten Man as well, Adam. Peter Parker's circle of friends sure had some interesting coincidences. Of course, one, maybe two would be fine but some writers can't help themselves.

Another thing that bothers me with the X-Men in the last few decades, and Hickman is using these characters, is that too many former enemies are becoming X-Men. Beyond Rogue and Magneto, we've seen Emma Frost, Sabretooth, Mystique, and Juggernaut all become X-Men. As the X-Men now seem to have moved beyond being a team of heroes, Professor Xavier has forgiven all the murders and acts of terror that those characters have committed. Rogue was a character without much of a history so that worked as far as reforming the character goes and I'll admit I loved Magneto changing his ways back then but it seems writers don't want to write evil mutants any more.
Back to Top profile | search
 
John Byrne
Avatar
Imaginary X-Man

Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 117959
Posted: 13 August 2019 at 6:41pm | IP Logged | 5 post reply

Juggernaut? He’s not a mutant.
Back to Top profile | search
 
John Byrne
Avatar
Imaginary X-Man

Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 117959
Posted: 13 August 2019 at 6:43pm | IP Logged | 6 post reply

Writing bad guys is tough in an apologetic society in which no one can be held responsible for their actions.

There’s also a sense that many writers identify more with the bad guys, the rule breakers. “Yeah, that’s what I’d do if I had super powers!”

Back to Top profile | search
 
Rick Whiting
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 22 April 2004
Posts: 1971
Posted: 13 August 2019 at 9:57pm | IP Logged | 7 post reply

X-Treme X-Men was just Claremont having Tessa/Sage Mary Sue (a term I really dislike, so for me to use it tells you how badly Claremont was writing Tessa) all over the place, while at least the first half of Whedon’s run was the only thing that had felt like X-Men in a long time, so Quesada made the right call in both instances, no matter his reasoning.

_______________________________


It seemed to me that Claremont was using Tessa/Sage to fill a void for those characters that he wanted to use but couldn't because he wasn't a "hot writer". It seemed to me that Quesada and Jemas were doing everything in their power to sabotage XXM. Like taking Beast out of the book after Claremont had written over a years worth of stories with him in it,not letting Claremont resurrect Psylocke in her British body,and by taking Salvador Laroca off of the book so that he could draw that Namor book written by Bill Jemas.

Edited by Rick Whiting on 13 August 2019 at 9:58pm
Back to Top profile | search
 
Rick Whiting
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 22 April 2004
Posts: 1971
Posted: 13 August 2019 at 10:00pm | IP Logged | 8 post reply

Juggernaut? He’s not a mutant.

______________________


Blame Chuck Austen for that one.
Back to Top profile | search
 
Michael Roberts
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 20 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 12994
Posted: 13 August 2019 at 10:35pm | IP Logged | 9 post reply

It seemed to me that Claremont was using Tessa/Sage to fill a void for those characters that he wanted to use but couldn't because he wasn't a "hot writer".

——-

Yes, he was using a character to serve a story that he wanted to tell instead of telling a story that served the characters. Also see his FF run which at times seemed like leftover EXCALIBUR plots featuring Roma. 
Back to Top profile | search
 
Shawn Kane
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 04 November 2010
Location: United States
Posts: 2823
Posted: 14 August 2019 at 5:11am | IP Logged | 10 post reply

" at least the first half of Whedon’s run was the only thing that had felt like X-Men in a long time"

I agree felt more like a classic X-Men run. It helped that he had Cyclops, Wolverine, Kitty Pryde, and was allowed to resurrect Colossus. He was able to get Kitty even though Claryemont wanted her and he was able to ignore Quesada's "Dead is Dead" policy even though Grant Morrison couldn't have Colossus. It was almst a cover band version of the stories that Claremont/Cockrum/JB/Smith/JR jr. did. 

So we're left with "cover versions", Marc Guggenheim and Matthew Rosenberg were the most recent at those attempts and those weren't bad comics but they felt like "Hey I'm writing these guys like Chris Claremont did" or we allow superstar writers blow everything up. Grant Morrison's run as the main book felt like his main goal was to break up Jean and Scott and make Scott and Emma Frost lovers. No costumes and Mutants were a culture of their own was probably as much editorial as it was Morrison. But the comic press (and Marvel) have us believe that run is one of the greatest of all the runs. And if a person feels that way, I certainly wouldn't say they're wrong because opinions are what they are but I don't hold that run in high regard. Hickman's run is being heralded the same way and in my mind it's because, like Grant Morrison, the writer is more important than what they do with the characters. Brubaker was able to turn Xavier into a manipulator worse than some of the villains they'd fought. I checked out after that so I'm not sure who was behind the Utopia stuff and slowing turning Cyclops into a terrorist. I blame Axel Alonso since he was always talking about Cyclops being his favorite character at the time. Hickman is now telling his story and inserting the X-Men into whatever he's trying to tell.


Back to Top profile | search
 
Kevin Sharp
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 09 December 2007
Posts: 316
Posted: 14 August 2019 at 7:39am | IP Logged | 11 post reply

JB: Now, I guess, we have to wonder why she didn't warn the X-Men that those demons had been unleashed.

***

Not to get too deep in the weeds, but after two readings of the comic my understanding is that yours & Chris's Uncanny run happened only in one timeline -- which Moira was living for the first time (and thus could be surprised by new developments). 

When she was reborn again after that, she made different choices which led to a all-new, all-different "reality."
Back to Top profile | search
 
John Byrne
Avatar
Imaginary X-Man

Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 117959
Posted: 14 August 2019 at 10:06am | IP Logged | 12 post reply

So the timeline Chris and I worked in is..... gone?
Back to Top profile | search
 

<< Prev Page of 18 Next >>
  Post ReplyPost New Topic
Printable version Printable version

Forum Jump
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot create polls in this forum
You can vote in polls in this forum

 Active Topics | Member List | Search | Help | Register | Login