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Topic: Et tu, Moira!? Or...what makes a mutant - SPOILERS Post ReplyPost New Topic
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Juan Gomez
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Posted: 10 August 2019 at 7:59pm | IP Logged | 1 post reply

I can respect that view, Phil, yet I can't help but acknowledge the old saying that goes: you cannot step into the same river twice.

A lot had already changed over the years. Sometimes those changes are for the best, sometimes for the worst, and others may be relatively neutral or inconsequential in the grand scheme of things...but they're still going to happen. Only way to completely avoid that would be to retire those characters and keep them locked in a safe, so to speak.

That said, I am not against a well-executed back to basics approach. Those can turn out nicely too. It's just not the only option I am, personally speaking, willing to check out.


Edited by Juan Gomez on 10 August 2019 at 8:00pm
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Joe Zhang
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Posted: 10 August 2019 at 9:41pm | IP Logged | 2 post reply

"The weird part about what Hickman is doing, weirder than what's specifically been done to Moira, is reinventing the X-Men -- and Magneto and at least some of what used to be the Brotherhood of Evil Mutants -- as mutant separatists all living together. With happy mutant teenagers."

=================

In other words, the X-Men are now no different than the Inhumans or Eternals. 
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Mark McKay
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Posted: 10 August 2019 at 9:49pm | IP Logged | 3 post reply

Wow, Joe, hadn’t thought about it that way. You’re absolutely right.
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Juan Gomez
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Posted: 10 August 2019 at 10:34pm | IP Logged | 4 post reply

I feel like there are a various differences left that such a comparison tends to overlook. For example, the sociopolitical stakes (and eventual fallout) are still directly tied to the existing tensions between humans and mutants in a way that doesn't quite resemble most stories about Inhumans or Eternals.

We could argue in detail about the parallels all night, but I believe the similarity is ostensibly meant to be temporary. Perceptions based on taking what little glimpse Hickman has given us into the whole situation too literally...when there is a very clear feeling in the air that something fishy is going on behind the scenes. Moira's involvement is only one part of the puzzle.

Those first two pages from House of X do feel, well, especially creepy and ominous. Even from an in-universe perspective, I think it's worth being skeptical and waiting to see when the other shoe drops. We're still, essentially, in media res without all the information. Hickman's plans are usually long term affairs with several secrets and revelations, as seen during his previous Marvel runs.

I would say there's more of a science fiction-style mystery at work, which should unravel in the next few weeks or months as everything comes to a head, rather than a definitive fait accompli.


Edited by Juan Gomez on 10 August 2019 at 10:36pm
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Rick Whiting
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Posted: 10 August 2019 at 11:29pm | IP Logged | 5 post reply

This has all the earmarks of CRISIS. "We're going to clean up all these mixed up timelines and universe!" Yeah. And make it worse than it was before.

___________________________________


Funny you should say that JB. A lot of Hickman's Marvel stories were basically a rehash of old DC stories, including Crisis On Infinite Earths. He even turned the Avengers into a combo of the JLA and the Legion, by bringing in existing or introducing new legacy or alternate versions of older Marvel characters that could be seen as Marvel versions of JLA and Legion members. So we get rehashed DC stories told with Marvel characters, but with graphs and lots of talking and very little or no action.
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John Byrne
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Posted: 11 August 2019 at 4:19am | IP Logged | 6 post reply

In Xavier's case, she meets him at different points in her lives each time, so it's possible that she didn't know about the accident that cost him the use of his legs in this timeline beforehand.

•••

Does she remember her past lives or not?

If she learns about the cause of Xavier’s disability in Life C, should she not then know about it in Lives D, E, F, G etc? Shouldn’t she know about it in all post-C lives even before she met him? Wouldn’t six year old Moira D have all the information gathered by Moiras A, B and C?

Time travel is really hard to write! - Dean Craig Pelton

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Darren Taylor
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Posted: 11 August 2019 at 4:56am | IP Logged | 7 post reply

What utter tripe!

So, how exactly does the mutant gene get triggered the exact same way? Does her mutant power include rewriting genetic code? How doesn't Prof X recognise the mind? It's the same mind, with the same memories? There should be some dejavu, no?

The math doesn't hold up either. If she is technically immortal and has unlimited rebirths, then -ALL- minds are hers!

This sounds more like a weak idea executed poorly, with little or no moderating voice to tober it into line. 




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Leigh DJ Hunt
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Posted: 11 August 2019 at 6:05am | IP Logged | 8 post reply

She doesn't have unlimited rebirths, she is told by Destiny that she has 10 or 11. So in theory, this could be her last try.

And by the way, Hickman did make it clear recently that he intends to leave the book at the end with a way to ignore all of this if needed. His comment was very similar to JB's one about putting the toys back in the box the way you found them.
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Shawn Kane
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Posted: 11 August 2019 at 6:13am | IP Logged | 9 post reply

When Hickman was announced as the writer (or "architect"), I told the guys at my LCS that I expected some interesting concepts that would have no heart to them. I'm going to give his books a chance because people seem to genuinely like his indy stuff and I genuinely like the Fantastic Four, Avengers, and X-Men. His Fantastic Four run incorporated the Future Foundation but I wanted to read about the Fantastic Four. His Avengers brought in a whole bunch of new members without any real reason why they became Avengers other than Hickman shoehorning them in. His New Avengers was just basically the Illuminati, which is a recent concept that I really dislike. Those three books didn't work for me no matter how many times I read them. 

The problem for me with the X-Men was that the "cover band" approach of the last few launches didn't work so great so I figured why not take one last shot? Hickman said in an interview that Byrne and Claremont's run was important to him but then followed up saying that the Jim Lee era what was made him love the X-Men (specifically mentioning the arc where Psylocke became an Elektra knock-off). Maybe the second part should have set off an alert for me. The first issue of House of X was all Big Idea but there was no one to like. Age of X seemed to just feel like rehashed apocalyptic future stuff, and the Moira revelation feels like fan fiction. Basically, if it's the X-Men but the names Byrne, Claremont, Cockrum, Smith, or JRjr. aren't attached to it, I'm probably not going to like (or buy) it. I guess that's my final word on the franchise.


Edited by Shawn Kane on 11 August 2019 at 9:15am
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John Byrne
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Posted: 11 August 2019 at 6:21am | IP Logged | 10 post reply

She doesn't have unlimited rebirths, she is told by Destiny that she has 10 or 11.

••

She's a Time Lord?

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Darren Taylor
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Posted: 11 August 2019 at 7:18am | IP Logged | 11 post reply

I view these old (Read: Established) characters similar to old historically important houses. They ought be protected. Now, no one wants things to be stale, I get that. But what does this story gain for the character in question being Moira and not a new character? 

Moira seems such a random choice (Well maybe less so if the conversation @ Marvel was, "Who haven't we effed over yet?").

This seems like shoe-horning a character to fit a story rather than a story being told about a character.

The story linchpin seems to be Prof X, so anyone in his life could have been this character...Llandra, Reed Richards, anyone.

Sorry for being so negative about this, just feels like character reverence is long gone.

When restoring a character, surely we want this:




Not this:



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John Byrne
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Posted: 11 August 2019 at 7:55am | IP Logged | 12 post reply

That’s an apt comparison. Characters are not so much restored as customized, altered to fit the needs of the current creative team.

Nothing new. Chris “customized” Magneto so long ago most readers think of that as the “real” version.

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