Active Topics | Member List | Search | Help | Register | Login
TV
Byrne Robotics > TV << Prev Page of 6 Next >>
Topic: El Camino: A Breaking Bad Movie -Spoilers Post ReplyPost New Topic
Author
Message
Brian Miller
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 28 July 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 26642
Posted: 06 September 2019 at 9:19pm | IP Logged | 1 post reply

Having just watched the DEADWOOD movie this morning, I agree with you. 

And I do, indeed, like BCS more than BB. And I loved BB. 
Back to Top profile | search
 
Greg Kirkman
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 12 May 2006
Location: United States
Posts: 15667
Posted: 10 September 2019 at 10:44pm | IP Logged | 2 post reply

To tease the movie, they’ve released a great little recap of Jesse’s entire arc from BREAKING BAD, set to a new cover of “Enchanted” (which, of course, was the song heard during the memorable scene where he first used heroin during season 2 of BB):

Back to Top profile | search e-mail
 
Greg Kirkman
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 12 May 2006
Location: United States
Posts: 15667
Posted: 10 September 2019 at 10:50pm | IP Logged | 3 post reply

I'm in the minority here, but I really didn't care for the final season of Breaking Bad. It felt like a step down after season four, so I'm hoping that this epilogue will add something to improve my opinion of it.
+++++++

As an aside, I find it rather fascinating how so many people seem to think the show could have ended with the season 4 finale, and Walt killing Gus. That shows a lack of understanding of what Gilligan and crew were going for, I think. Ending with Walt as a triumphant drug kingpin would have been a terrible way to end it. 

Season 5 is absolutely vital to the show’s overall arc and it’s moral lesson. All of Walt’s lies and evil acts catch up to him, and it’s immensely satisfying and illuminating to watch. Season 5-A is incredibly dark, and shows Walt at his worst and most powerful. Then, along comes season 5-B, which drives him to his knees and resolves all of the major characters’ relationships and arcs. Watching those last eight episodes in first run, week to week, was the biggest high I’ve ever had watching a TV show. 


Edited by Greg Kirkman on 10 September 2019 at 11:03pm
Back to Top profile | search e-mail
 
Rob Ocelot
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 07 December 2008
Location: Canada
Posts: 1126
Posted: 11 September 2019 at 5:07am | IP Logged | 4 post reply

Season 5 is all the more remarkable because (as far as I'm aware) they let the characters finish their stories rather than writing the characters into forced endings.   I think the broad strokes of Walt and Jesse's arcs were written (where they end up) but the nuts and bolts of their dialogue and actions and how they get to that ending were allowed to organically fall as the scripts were being written.

Other characters like Hank were left completely open.   I think the original idea was Hank would never fully figure out what Walt was up to -- he would come close but he'd never hit on a crucial piece of evidence linking Walt and Heisenberg.   At one point they toyed with the final scene being Hank realizing the connection but they weren't going to deal with how Hank acted on it (if he does indeed act on it).   Instead, they decided to deal with the real life consequences of Walt's actions.  Walt doesn't get a last minute chance to save Hank and show everyone that he's really a 'good guy' just taking care of his family.   The other endings for Hank are more in line with the black comedic elements of the pilot and the first season but they don't really ring true to the Hank we saw evolve over the subsequent seasons.   They let Hank's voice dictate his actions rather than the writers need to tie up his arc with a poetic bow.

Season 5 was also where they pinned down a two year timeframe for the series rather than letting the real-world production timelines dictate the speed at which the show unfolds -- something a lot of shows do as a convenience to explain why actors (especially kids) have aged..  

What this means is that it's still 2009 or 2010 for both Jesse and Cinnabon Gene as far as their stories are concerned.  It's sobering when you realize we are now a full deacde ahead of where the characters are now!
Back to Top profile | search e-mail
 
Greg Kirkman
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 12 May 2006
Location: United States
Posts: 15667
Posted: 11 September 2019 at 8:05am | IP Logged | 5 post reply

I love the fact that the show basically has a Choose Your Own Adventure ending, sort of. We’re given several satisfying mini-endings before the show concludes. We get to see Hank finally outsmart and arrest Walt. We see Walt lose everything and go on the lam. And, finally, we see Walt come back home and settle his accounts before dying. 

As for Hank’s story, I’m very pleased with where they took it. Ending on the shock of Hank connecting the dots would have felt like a cheat, because this is a show which always explored consequences. What we got instead was a thorough examination of where Hank had gone as a character, and the disintegration of his relationship with Walt. The thing which I really appreciate about their chess match in season 5-B is that Hank DOES outsmart and arrest Walt...but Hank’s ego (ego also being Walt’s main flaw) puts him into a position where and he Gomez are outmanned, outgunned, and operating off the books when Jack Welker and his neo-Nazi crew arrive. Because he was obsessed with catching Walt on his own and redeeming himself, Hank unwittingly set up the conditions for his own murder. 

But, as Gilligan has noted, Hank did go out like a man, which also ties in with the show’s running theme about Walt’s fragile sense of masculinity vs. Hank’s (initially) obnoxious machoness. Hank does evolve into a genuinely heroic character after being humbled by his gunshot wounds, but his pride and ego are still his undoing, in the end. Just like Walt.


And, yeah, whether the “Gene” portions of BCS and/or EL CAMINO are set in present-day or relatively soon after the end of BB is an intriguing question. 


Edited by Greg Kirkman on 11 September 2019 at 8:10am
Back to Top profile | search e-mail
 
Vinny Valenti
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 17 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 6642
Posted: 11 September 2019 at 8:39am | IP Logged | 6 post reply

"Season 5 is all the more remarkable because (as far as I'm aware) they let the characters finish their stories rather than writing the characters into forced endings.   I think the broad strokes of Walt and Jesse's arcs were written (where they end up) but the nuts and bolts of their dialogue and actions and how they get to that ending were allowed to organically fall as the scripts were being written."

--

My only quibble is the way the Neo-Nazis decided to keep Jessie as a meth-making slave, after they were already free and clear with Walt's money, and since it was a major element I can't quite let it go. Even Jack noted that with Walt's millions, they don't need to work any more and as a result don't need to keep Jessie alive. Then Todd says that with Jessie, they can make even more money (influenced my his crush on Lydia), and Jack immediately changes his mind. That feels a bit weak to me.


Edited by Vinny Valenti on 11 September 2019 at 8:40am
Back to Top profile | search
 
Rodrigo castellanos
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 03 July 2012
Location: Uruguay
Posts: 418
Posted: 11 September 2019 at 10:37am | IP Logged | 7 post reply

Watching those last eight episodes in first run, week to week, was the biggest high I’ve ever had watching a TV show.

Same here. 

And I'm Team Jesse all the way, btw. I ended up straight up hating Walt as much as you could hate a fictional character. Not because of him being a criminal or an "anti-hero" (I loved Tony Soprano and Omar from THE WIRE among many, many others) but because of him being such a coward and lousy person in general. Him letting Jane die for entirely selfish reasons was my tipping point.

But the show was ambiguous enough that an opposite interpretation was not only possible but I'd say they were in the majority (Team Walt). EVERYBODY was watching the show in that final season, and arguments with friends and family about it got quite heated indeed, I don't know if we're going to see anything quite like that anymore.


Back to Top profile | search
 
Greg Kirkman
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 12 May 2006
Location: United States
Posts: 15667
Posted: 11 September 2019 at 11:18am | IP Logged | 8 post reply

My only quibble is the way the Neo-Nazis decided to keep Jessie as a meth-making slave, after they were already free and clear with Walt's money, and since it was a major element I can't quite let it go. Even Jack noted that with Walt's millions, they don't need to work any more and as a result don't need to keep Jessie alive. Then Todd says that with Jessie, they can make even more money (influenced my his crush on Lydia), and Jack immediately changes his mind. That feels a bit weak to me.
+++++++++

I dunno—Jack’s clearly the greedy type, and having more for the sake of more seems to fit him pretty well. More importantly, he takes Jesse ratting him and his gang out to Hank personally, and so imprisoning and torturing Jesse seems like fittingly sadistic payback. And, of course, Todd also has a sadistic streak when it comes toward Jesse.
Back to Top profile | search e-mail
 
Rob Ocelot
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 07 December 2008
Location: Canada
Posts: 1126
Posted: 14 September 2019 at 8:40am | IP Logged | 9 post reply

My only quibble is the way the Neo-Nazis decided to keep Jessie as a meth-making slave, after they were already free and clear with Walt's money, and since it was a major element I can't quite let it go. Even Jack noted that with Walt's millions, they don't need to work any more and as a result don't need to keep Jessie alive. Then Todd says that with Jessie, they can make even more money (influenced my his crush on Lydia), and Jack immediately changes his mind. That feels a bit weak to me.
+++++++++

I dunno—Jack’s clearly the greedy type, and having more for the sake of more seems to fit him pretty well. More importantly, he takes Jesse ratting him and his gang out to Hank personally, and so imprisoning and torturing Jesse seems like fittingly sadistic payback. And, of course, Todd also has a sadistic streak when it comes toward Jesse.

Keeping with running theme of BB, Jack's actions fall right in line.

There was a point where Walt could have stopped and walked away from what he was doing.   The money no longer mattered as it became about power and proving himself.   

Hank's desire to prove himself (and in essense prove he was better than Walt) lead to the loss of his job and ultimately his life.

Gus was not simply interested in making more money than Hector Salamanca, he wanted to prove he was better.

Jack's a lot like Walt.   They both think that having more money than the next guy is the be-all-end-all.   When they have more money than they know what to do with they aren't satisfied.   They keep on going.   It was never about the money so much as the power over others it represented.  Imprisoning Jesse is a power rush that no amount of money can buy.


Edited by Rob Ocelot on 14 September 2019 at 8:40am
Back to Top profile | search e-mail
 
Greg Kirkman
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 12 May 2006
Location: United States
Posts: 15667
Posted: 14 September 2019 at 4:05pm | IP Logged | 10 post reply

Also, my initial impression was that Jack acquiesced because Todd clearly wanted Jesse alive. Todd's reasoning is a bit of a reach--Jesse may have ratted the gang out to Hank--but Jack clearly sees that it means something to Todd, so he lets Jesse live.

Because Todd basically wants to keep Jesse as a sort of meth-cooking pet. And torture him, emotionally and physically.


Anyway, yeah, one of the subtler points of seasons 5-a/5-b is that Walt is now working with the scum of the earth--neo-Nazis who are killers for hire, greedy for the sake of greed, and who are more than happy to steal the bulk of Walt's blood money.

Gus is an echo of who Walt WANTS to be: A powerful drug kingpin. Jack is an echo of who Walt has BECOME: a monster.
Back to Top profile | search e-mail
 
Greg Kirkman
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 12 May 2006
Location: United States
Posts: 15667
Posted: 14 September 2019 at 4:41pm | IP Logged | 11 post reply

And, yeah, the nature of power and the emptiness of greed are definitely themes interwoven throughout BB.

Meanwhile, I've been dipping my toe back into the world of BB, and came across this excellent series of analysis videos covering both BB and BCS:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Mi3XFfAiCU&list=PLY8-JHLY9y DO7gjtWtlHKzEMRbUEvhFei
Back to Top profile | search e-mail
 
Greg Kirkman
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 12 May 2006
Location: United States
Posts: 15667
Posted: 17 September 2019 at 9:23pm | IP Logged | 12 post reply

No surprise, since we already saw Charles Baker back as Skinny Pete in the trailer. Still nice to have confirmation, though.

Back to Top profile | search e-mail
 

<< Prev Page of 6 Next >>
  Post ReplyPost New Topic
Printable version Printable version

Forum Jump
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot create polls in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum

 Active Topics | Member List | Search | Help | Register | Login