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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005 Posts: 132135
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Posted: 24 September 2019 at 6:32pm | IP Logged | 1
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They have to have a separate vote to disqualify him from running again, tho. ••• That’s what I said.
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Brian Miller Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 28 July 2004 Location: United States Posts: 30833
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Posted: 24 September 2019 at 6:41pm | IP Logged | 2
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Yep. I was just reiterating.
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Charles Valderrama Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004 Location: United States Posts: 4716
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Posted: 24 September 2019 at 9:19pm | IP Logged | 3
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As much as I want the truth to be revealed, this could be like the Mueller report - we all know there’s corruption & abuse of power but A.G. Barr and the WH will Sharpie the hell out of that transcript. The Dems need solid evidence going forward.
Flip-side... Trump’s attempt to blackmail the Ukraine could be a BIG mistake. Time to grab some popcorn and get comfortable....
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Joe Zhang Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004 Location: United States Posts: 12857
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Posted: 24 September 2019 at 10:34pm | IP Logged | 4
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The Democratic party went from doing what's good for the people, to doing whatever feels good for themselves. By impeaching Trump, they've effectively started the presidential election early, without a candidate. They have no firm political platform, other than "fight Trump!" This is sad.
Edited by Joe Zhang on 24 September 2019 at 10:37pm
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Michael Roberts Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 20 April 2004 Location: United States Posts: 14812
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Posted: 24 September 2019 at 11:10pm | IP Logged | 5
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The Democratic party went from doing what's good for the people, to doing whatever feels good for themselves. By impeaching Trump, they've effectively started the presidential election early, without a candidate. They have no firm political platform, other than "fight Trump!" This is sad.
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You could not be more wrong. Not impeaching Trump and facing a scandal-ridden Donald in 2020 would be best for the Democratic party. But not doing anything normalizes Trump's behavior. Trump will be out of office in a little more than a year or more than five, but establishing that it is OK for the President of the United States to run the office like a petty dictator will be permanently damaging to the office.
What's sad is that people are willing to shrug it off because it's politically inconvenient.
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David Allen Perrin Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 15 April 2009 Location: United States Posts: 3511
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Posted: 25 September 2019 at 1:07am | IP Logged | 6
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This is the true lasting effect of letting that disease sit in the ‘WH. People are now AFRAID of pursuing justice! They would rather the politics be ‘safe’.
People will excoriate what they think is ‘socialism’ (“We’re gonna do WHAT for poor people!?”)....and timidly risk letting a dictatorship rise (The President of the United States is a lying cheating, corrupt, racist monster....but it’s probably a bad idea to impeach him because he may become even more popular!”).
What the hell?!
Edited by David Allen Perrin on 25 September 2019 at 7:19am
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Joe Zhang Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004 Location: United States Posts: 12857
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Posted: 25 September 2019 at 1:39am | IP Logged | 7
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There's no right answer. The Democrats can play watchdog over a Trump presidency for the next five years, or make an honest attempt at winning the next election while Trump wrecks the Presidency in the remaining 13 months. I'd prefer it if a Democrat, Biden, Warren or even Sanders, win in 2020.
Edited by Joe Zhang on 25 September 2019 at 1:40am
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Brian Hague Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 14 November 2006 Posts: 8515
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Posted: 25 September 2019 at 7:27am | IP Logged | 8
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It's not that an attempt at impeachment will galvanize his base. It will, but so what? His base is a bunch of foam-flecked, rabid, diseased assholes regardless. The point is the impeachment process will fail. There is no uncertainty. There is no fear that it "might." It will.
The Republicans, whatever noises they may occasionally make (very occasionally) about Trump, will not unseat him as President. They will not. Impeachment, whatever evidence it brings to light, and there is no assurance that it will bring any, will fail. Absolutely. Entirely. Without question. Fail.
All of this out-to-lunch moral rectitude demanding that the Democrats draw their shining gold sword and fall on it is asinine in the extreme. Why MUST the Democratic publicly wave about their inability to accomplish anything and in the process effectively exonerate the most criminal pile of offal to hold high office in this country in over a century?
Does everyone NEED Trump effectively exonerated and the Dems fangs pulled for some reason? That accomplishes what exactly for the Dems? Makes those goading them into a losing battle FEEL better somehow? Yeah, that's what we need here. To feel better.
What those families in Texas need is for something useful to be done. The Dems holding a public self-lynching will not unlock one cage. It will, in fact, prevent them from being able to do so in the future. But, by all means, rah rah, "impeach so we look good in the history books."
Edited by Brian Hague on 25 September 2019 at 7:33am
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Steve De Young Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 01 April 2008 Location: United States Posts: 3487
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Posted: 25 September 2019 at 7:54am | IP Logged | 9
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Before you become that certain that it will fail, take a close look at the signals that the Republicans in the Senate are sending. And take a look at the polling, both of Congress and the American people, at the beginning of the Watergate investigation. Impeachment was actually less popular then than it is now.
The Republicans have no loyalty to Trump, only themselves (same with the Democrats, btw). If they conclude that their own reelection and chance to keep the WH is better with Pence at the top of the ticket, they'll remove Trump in a second. And that conclusion wouldn't be a bizarre one at this point.
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005 Posts: 132135
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Posted: 25 September 2019 at 7:58am | IP Logged | 10
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I’m waiting to learn Mitch “Chinless and Spineless” McConnell can block this coming before the Senate, as he has with BIPARTISAN gun legislation.
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Brian Hague Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 14 November 2006 Posts: 8515
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Posted: 25 September 2019 at 7:58am | IP Logged | 11
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Steve, I think you should look at the possibility that the Republicans are baiting the Democrats and the American public with these "signals."
I am already certain that it will fail, and you should be as well.
Edited by Brian Hague on 25 September 2019 at 7:59am
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Steve De Young Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 01 April 2008 Location: United States Posts: 3487
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Posted: 25 September 2019 at 8:04am | IP Logged | 12
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If Mitch does try to block it and shut it down, that just helps the Democrats take the Senate, as they can hang everything Trump has ever done around their necks for protecting him.
And Mitch and the gang's signals aren't baiting the public. They're playing this in a way that lets them shift as the wind blows. They're not going to go up against Trump yet, but they need to create a little distance from him in case they need to take that tack later on.
But, as someone else has said here already, if you want this country to remain some version of a democratic republic, then if the President commits high crimes and misdemeanors, he needs to be impeached. We're verging toward eight year dictatorships chosen by lot. And eventually one of those dictators will decide to cancel the casting of the lots.
And a disturbing number of people seem only to be concerned that when that happens, its their team's dictator who's in the big chair.
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