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Jason G. Michalski
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 03 June 2019
Location: United States
Posts: 89
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| Posted: 11 October 2019 at 5:03pm | IP Logged | 1
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Thanks, Dave. It's really fixed now. :)
I can't say much on the current state of DC Comics. I haven't really read a lot of DC Comics outside of Deathstroke and Snyder's Batman since The New 52 started. I do think the use of "Crisis" needs to be retired already.
Even if this turns out to be true, it'll get rebooted the minute sales start to slip or when they need a new summer event.
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Adam Schulman
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 22 July 2017
Posts: 1717
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| Posted: 11 October 2019 at 5:50pm | IP Logged | 2
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I've said it before and I'll say it again: in no other line of work you could show the extreme level of incompetence DiDio, Lee and Johns consistently show and be able to keep your job.
***
Johns has been at odds with DiDio and Lee. He didn't want the New 52 to happen. He got outvoted. This we know for sure. The "leak" happened long ago.
And I'm willing to bet that the delays for DOOMSDAY CLOCK and SHAZAM! have nothing, or at least little, to do with Johns or the artists he's working with. It's because of conflicts with DiDio and Lee. I can practically feel it in my bones.
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Adam Schulman
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 22 July 2017
Posts: 1717
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| Posted: 11 October 2019 at 5:59pm | IP Logged | 3
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DiDio also doesn't seem to understand that lots of comics readers, including myself, really, really hate Tom King's run on BATMAN.
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Carlos Velasco
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 02 August 2019
Location: Spain
Posts: 280
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| Posted: 14 October 2019 at 6:01am | IP Logged | 4
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Sometimes I wonder if it wouldn't be better just to have each title within its own universe.
By the way, I'm finally reading the original Crisis (I couldn't finish on my first attempt some years ago) and it's better than I expected. I'm also learning a lot about obscure DC characters. It's a shame that so many of them had to die... and ironic, because most were "dead" already after decades of not appearing in any collection.
Edited by Carlos Velasco on 14 October 2019 at 6:48am
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 132236
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| Posted: 14 October 2019 at 6:22am | IP Logged | 5
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It’s a shame that so many of them had to die. ••• Mea culpa. No one could have known it at the time, but the death of Phoenix unleashed a bloodlust like nothing comics had seen before. “Death sells” became a mantra, and suddenly characters were no longer allowed happy endings. No peaceful retirement. And here we are today.
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Michael Roberts
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 20 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 14812
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| Posted: 14 October 2019 at 7:54am | IP Logged | 6
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I've said it before and I'll say it again: in no other line of work you could show the extreme level of incompetence DiDio, Lee and Johns consistently show and be able to keep your job.
***
Johns has been at odds with DiDio and Lee. He didn't want the New 52 to happen. He got outvoted. This we know for sure. The "leak" happened long ago.
And I'm willing to bet that the delays for DOOMSDAY CLOCK and SHAZAM! have nothing, or at least little, to do with Johns or the artists he's working with. It's because of conflicts with DiDio and Lee. I can practically feel it in my bones.
-----
Johns left the editorial end of DC last year, and Jim Lee replaced him as CCO, so I'm not sure he'd be getting the credit/blame for this new DC Timeline. It seems at odds with what Johns was doing in DC Rebirth, which I was under the impression brought back a lot of readers who left after New 52. People can draw their own inferences about the timing of this all.
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Greg McPhee
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 25 August 2004
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 5065
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| Posted: 14 October 2019 at 9:06am | IP Logged | 7
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No peaceful retirement.
====================================================
One of the many things I liked about Roger Stern's Avengers was his conclusion to the Hank Pym storyline.
If the character had disappeared from that point, at least he was in a good place.
Move forward to West Coast Avengers, and he was put through the mill again.
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Eric Sofer
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 31 January 2014
Location: United States
Posts: 4789
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| Posted: 14 October 2019 at 9:24am | IP Logged | 8
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Mr. Byrne, I can't culpa you entirely. Your X-Men set an epic landmark; it was a very long, very strong storyline that grew and logically extended to the the climax.
I can't compare this with a bunch of editors sitting around saying, "Who can we kill?" "Let's kill Flash!" "We can't kill him!" "Sure we can, and make Wally 'Flash'!" "...We'll do it! Who else can we kill?" "I wanna kill Superman and Batman!" "Can't do it. Too many endorsements." "Then how about Supergirl and Robin!" "Yeah, Supergirl's always been useless. But Robin's involved in Titans... hands off!" "How about Earth-2's Robin?" "...KILL HIM!"
Not one story - not even a good lead up - to killing so many characters. I'd swear they used a dartboard and a blindfold. And the bloodthirsty had so many Earth-2 heroes to kill... basically whoever wasn't needed for the JSA. So... Aquaman and Aqualad. The Green Arrow and Speedy. The Star Spangled Kid and Stripesy. The Vigilante. The Shining Knight.
And what the hell? Do you need 'em back? "Oh, look who ELSE survived the Crisis! It's Merry, Girl of a 1000 Gimmicks!" Pfui.
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 132236
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| Posted: 14 October 2019 at 9:31am | IP Logged | 9
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The death of Phoenix was the first domino, Eric. If what followed was crap—well, copies so often are!
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Eric Sofer
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 31 January 2014
Location: United States
Posts: 4789
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| Posted: 14 October 2019 at 10:14am | IP Logged | 10
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I can accept that, sir. But if COIE had been as well thought out and patiently presented as The Fate of the Phoenix, this topic would have two responses.
Yes sir, that first domino was brilliant indeed... and the giant whose shoulder much smaller writers tried to stand on later.
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Marc Baptiste
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Joined: 17 June 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 3655
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| Posted: 14 October 2019 at 10:53am | IP Logged | 11
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The thing about the Dark Phoenix Saga is that it didn't SCREAM "saga". It was so subtle and flowed so organically as part of the monthly title, that when the big Dark Phoenix stuff started to happen it really smacked you in the face! It's like the difference between a home-cooked meal VS a pre-packaged, microwave for 3 minutes meal.
Marc
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
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| Posted: 14 October 2019 at 11:01am | IP Logged | 12
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Well, if the Phoenix “Saga” was subtle, it was because we didn’t know we were doing it. We were just trying to make each issue bigger than the one before it—until our planned storyline was yanked out from under us, and something truly HUGE took its place. Tho, even with that, we had no idea just HOW HUGE at the time.
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